Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
 Fly, no idea
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| luisjgarcia |
Posted on 17-02-2009 19:49
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Member Location: Aragón Posts: 84 Joined: 26.05.08 |
In Aragón, Spain, 15-02-09. Centaurea calcitrapa
luisjgarcia attached the following image:  [67.57Kb] |
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| Andrzej |
Posted on 17-02-2009 20:06
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Member Location: Poland Posts: 2431 Joined: 05.01.06 |
Lonchopteridae 
dr. A. J. Woznica, Institute of Environmental Biology, Wroclaw University of Environmental & Life Sciences |
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| katerina dvorakova |
Posted on 17-02-2009 20:06
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 Member Location: Czech Republic Posts: 399 Joined: 25.03.08 |
Lonchopteridae? Katka |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 19-02-2009 15:05
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Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
The close relationship between Lonchopteridae and Phoridae is really obvious to me in this picture, don't you think? |
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| katerina dvorakova |
Posted on 19-02-2009 18:29
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Member Location: Czech Republic Posts: 399 Joined: 25.03.08 |
Hi, I often see Phoridae in material from traps and they have another shape of the had and thorax. I am almost sure, that this picture is Lonchopteridae. Katka |
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| pwalter |
Posted on 19-02-2009 18:54
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 Member Location: Miskolc, Hungary Posts: 3555 Joined: 06.11.08 |
viktor j nilsson wrote: The close relationship between Lonchopteridae and Phoridae is really obvious to me in this picture, don't you think? I think You meant the philogenetic relationship between them? I read in Brehm that Phoridae were/are tought to be very basal in Brachycera. How basal are they actually? Are other families derived from them? That would make them paraphyletic of course. In Brehm's book it's said that these could be the ancestors of fleas, but modern molecular evidence suggest that their ancestors are Mecoptera, Boreidae - a fact which I found fascinating. If they really emerged from Boreidae, that would make the Siphanoptera order a subfamily of Boreidae |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 04-03-2009 09:59
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Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Hi, yes, I referred to their phylogenetic relationships and basal position within Cyclorrhapha. Yeates & Wiegmann (1999) writes: "Cyclorrhapha have traditionally been divided into two groups, Aschiza and Schizophora, based on the absence or presence, respectively, of a ptilinal fissure. The nonschizophoran families are Opetiidae, Platypezidae, Lonchopteridae, Sciadoceridae, Ironomyiidae, Phoridae, Pipunculidae, and Syrphidae. Most recent studies instead have concluded that “Aschiza” are probably paraphyletic with respect to Schizophora, and we refer to them as lower Cyclorrhapha." Although the relationship between the families of lower Cyclorrhapha is disbuted (see the attached four cladograms from Yeats & Wiegmann), it is quite evident that, even if Phoridae and Lonchopteridae are not exectly sister-groups, then they are at least very closely related and share several characteristics. And no, I do not think that there is much risk that Phoridae is paraphyletic. The families of "Aschiza" has probably branched of sequentially from the "main branch" leading to the other more derived Cyclorrhaphan families (as they do in B, C and D in the figure below), instead of from a single basal split between Aschiza and Schizophora (as it was traditionally thought, represented in A below). Thus Aschiza is probably paraphyletic. But the families of basal Cyclorrhaphan in themselves are most probably monophyletic (although I know nothing about Sciadoceridae and Ironomyiidae). cheers, Viktor Yeates, D. & Wiegmann, B., 1999. Congruence and controversy: Toward a higher-level phylogeny of diptera. ANNUAL REVIEW OF ENTOMOLOGY, 44, 397-428. 
Edited by viktor j nilsson on 04-03-2009 10:14 |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 04-03-2009 10:15
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Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
And yes. I'm 100% sure the picture above is Lonchopteridae. |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 04-03-2009 12:44
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Cladogram B would also be supportive of a monophyletic Schizophora but with an alternative placement of Opetiidae compared to the other three cladograms...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 04-03-2009 13:33
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Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Yeah, I guess that Disney did propose both Achiza - excluding Opetiidae - and Schizophora to be monophyletic sister groups according to cladogram B. |
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| Nosferatumyia |
Posted on 04-03-2009 16:51
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 Member Location: Posts: 3574 Joined: 28.12.07 |
Beware of Maya... 
Val |
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