Gallery Links
Users Online
· Guests Online: 11

· Members Online: 1
Daniel Whitmore

· Total Members: 4,760
· Newest Member: RE Niks
Forum Threads
Theme Switcher
Switch to:
Last Seen Users
· Daniel WhitmoreOnline
· Roy< 5 mins
· Pentti Ketola00:27:24
· Reimund Ley00:29:47
· Marcello00:46:49
· Zeegers01:23:22
· helge01:24:11
· bertrandpami01:48:16
· Nosferatumyia02:05:35
· Volker02:51:12
Latest Photo Additions
View Thread
Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
Elgiva cucularia? --> Dichetophora sp. (cf. finlandica?)
ukursawe
#1 Print Post
Posted on 10-10-2021 11:42
Member

Location:
Posts: 19
Joined: 28.06.21

Hi,

Few days ago I took a few pictures of a longish, medium-sized fly on a leaf of one of our garden shrubs.

The appendices on the antennae seems to suggest it might belong to the family Sciomyzidae. My best guess would be Elgiva cucularia. Is it possible to confirm or reject that speculation based on the picture below?

Germany, Garden in Southern Bavaria, Munich (-West), 25.09.2021, app. 6-8 mm

Greetings, Uli
ukursawe attached the following image:


[203.31Kb]
Edited by ukursawe on 10-10-2021 14:27
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/birds_and_critters
ukursawe
#2 Print Post
Posted on 10-10-2021 12:00
Member

Location:
Posts: 19
Joined: 28.06.21

Second image
ukursawe attached the following image:


[198.4Kb]
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/birds_and_critters
Nikita Vikhrev
#3 Print Post
Posted on 10-10-2021 14:15
User Avatar

Member

Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 8936
Joined: 24.05.05

No, Dichetophora (finlandica?)
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
ukursawe
#4 Print Post
Posted on 10-10-2021 14:26
Member

Location:
Posts: 19
Joined: 28.06.21

Hi Nikita,

thanks for the correction. I didn't know that species, but it is obviously a better match, especially with respect to the regular pattern on the outside (front) edge of the wings.

Thanks & greetings, Uli
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/birds_and_critters
ukursawe
#5 Print Post
Posted on 10-10-2021 16:54
Member

Location:
Posts: 19
Joined: 28.06.21

Hi,

from what I gathered in the Web, the number of "postalar bristles" seems to be a criterium to distinguish D. finlandica (1 pt bristle) from D. obliterata (2 pt bristles).
I tried to extract a few views from that region from my images, but, since I don't have any experience, I can't make a clear diagnosis from these rather grainy and blurry images (sorry for that).
Is it possible to make the distinction here?

Greetings, Uli

PS: In the posterior view I have marked the region, where I think these postalar bristles could be located. I count two there Smile
ukursawe attached the following image:


[90.88Kb]
Edited by ukursawe on 10-10-2021 16:57
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/birds_and_critters
Nikita Vikhrev
#6 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2021 13:01
User Avatar

Member

Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 8936
Joined: 24.05.05

Uli, I could not and still can not say 2 or 1 postalar bristle.
There are other characters: in D. finlandica:
1. Thoracic patternmore greish
2. Antenna longer
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
ukursawe
#7 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2021 14:15
Member

Location:
Posts: 19
Joined: 28.06.21

Hi Nikita,

thank you for your explanations. The thorax was rather light gray and not light brown, but colors in an image depend on a lot of factors (monitor calibration, white balance etc.), so it is probably not 100% reliable.
Anyway, I am quite happy with the genus and an optimistic "cf. finlandica", maybe.

Thanks & Greetings, Uli
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/birds_and_critters
eklans
#8 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2021 15:22
Member

Location: Franconia, Germany
Posts: 2081
Joined: 11.11.18

Hi Uli and Nikita, I'm not 100% sure, but my first D. obliterata was from 2016 and I noted: "femora whitish yellow, tip orange" while finlandica the femora are completely orange.
Here's a couple obliterata from this afternoon 2021-10-11 on my housewall:
eklans attached the following image:


[29.25Kb]
Greetings, Eric
 
ukursawe
#9 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2021 15:55
Member

Location:
Posts: 19
Joined: 28.06.21

Hi Eric,

I remember I read something similar in the german Wikipedia-Entry for D. obliterata:

https://de.wikipe...obliterata

Unfortunately, only the german version mentions that "the apical sections of the femora are noticeably red, which distinguishes the species from the very similar species D. finlandica".
I hope my translation is correct, but of course, generally, the reliability of Wikipedia entries can be questionable.

This publication here mentions at least three criteria to distinguish the two species:

Sciomyzidae Fallén, 1820 (Diptera) collected in the Mercantour National Park, France
Jean-Claude Vala, Christopher D. Williams 2015

Citation:
"The species (Dichetophora finlandica) has been often confused with the second Palaearctic species mentioned below. However, it differs by the presence of only one pair of post-alar setae, the third antennal segment elongated and very acute, and the yellow femur III."

I am in no position to judge if these claims are valid or not, even though I am still wondering, why I found that specimen in a garden at the perimeter of a huge city like Munich. No streams/ponds in the immediate vicinity, as far as I know.

Greetings, Uli
Edited by ukursawe on 11-10-2021 15:58
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/birds_and_critters
Nikita Vikhrev
#10 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2021 16:42
User Avatar

Member

Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 8936
Joined: 24.05.05

Hi Eric, I agree that colouration is variable. Also D. obliterata is mostly W-European species and I examined only few specimens.
However, the length of antenna on your image seems to me shoter than that on Uli's images.
Anyway, I do not insist that Uli's fly is finlandica.
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
Jump to Forum:
Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Sciomyzidae ID -> Dichetophora obliterata Diptera (adults) 2 13-01-2022 16:34
Lispe of Africa & Elgiva, new publications Diptera (adults) 3 08-10-2021 08:14
Elgiva solicita? Diptera (adults) 2 01-08-2021 19:32
Orange fly ---> Elgiva Solicita Diptera (adults) 4 16-05-2021 18:54
Sciomyzidae: Elgiva cucularia Diptera (adults) 6 07-04-2021 10:40
Date and time
18 May 2022 12:56
Login
Username

Password



Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Temporary email?
Due to fact this site has functionality making use of your email address, any registration using a temporary email address will be rejected.

Paul
Donate
Please, help to make
Diptera.info
possible and enable
further improvements!
Latest Articles
Syrph the Net
Those who want to have access to the Syrph the Net database need to sign the
License Agreement -
Click to Download


Public files of Syrph the Net can be downloaded HERE

Last updated: 25.08.2011
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

14.05.22 07:24
Hi, 3 threads in Eggs, etc should be in adults - possible to change please?

13.04.22 07:52

12.04.22 07:41
cant attach picture to post in forum, what do I do wrong? Sorry Novice question ...

09.01.22 16:56
Hello, I'm looking for literature on chironomid larvae that are able to survive after being entrapped in ice for at least several days . So far I've only found literature on Eretmoptera murphy

11.12.21 16:10
Dematoneura in the gallery should be DeSmatoneura

23.09.21 14:29
All sorted.

16.09.21 21:24
Sorry put 5 new threads in Asilidae forum instead in Syrphidae forum, can pleas an admin move it to Syrph? THANKS, Norbert

09.09.21 06:48
https://www.jeugdb
ondsuitgeverij.nl/
product/de-vliegen
families-met-drie-
voetkussentjes/

09.09.21 06:47
wing ventation is totally different

03.09.21 11:51
Hi, what's the major difference between dolichopodidae and rhagionidae? Can someone help me? Thanks!

Render time: 2.85 seconds | 164,733,787 unique visits