Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Muscid on bark #1
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| Juergen Peters |
Posted on 14-10-2007 23:32
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 Member Location: northwest Germany Posts: 14070 Joined: 11.09.04 |
Hello! I wondered whether this was a Muscid or Calliphorid, but now I think it is a female of Musca autumnalis. But I can't see any orange markings! Size of a normal house fly. Ostwestfalen/Germany, yesterday afternoon. Larger picture: http://www.foto-u..._W_big.jpg Juergen Peters attached the following image:  [45.5Kb] Edited by Juergen Peters on 14-10-2007 23:33 Best regards, Jürgen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Juergen Peters Borgholzhausen, Germany WWW: http://insektenfo... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 14-10-2007 23:39
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9426 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Musca. I don't like and don't know this genus 
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Juergen Peters |
Posted on 15-10-2007 00:35
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Member Location: northwest Germany Posts: 14070 Joined: 11.09.04 |
Hello, Nikita! Nikita Vikhrev wrote: Musca. I don't like and don't know this genus But it is not M. autumnalis then? Best regards, Jürgen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Juergen Peters Borgholzhausen, Germany WWW: http://insektenfo... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 15-10-2007 21:46
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 Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7282 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Could well be an autumnalis female - usually it is just the males that have the orange colour on the abdomen
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| Juergen Peters |
Posted on 15-10-2007 23:18
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Member Location: northwest Germany Posts: 14070 Joined: 11.09.04 |
Tony Irwin wrote: Could well be an autumnalis female - usually it is just the males that have the orange colour on the abdomen Thanks, Tony! I had suspected something like that, already. Best regards, Jürgen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Juergen Peters Borgholzhausen, Germany WWW: http://insektenfo... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |
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| Xespok |
Posted on 16-10-2007 05:46
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 Member Location: Debrecen, Hungary Posts: 5551 Joined: 02.03.05 |
So far I could not find any consistent differences in the field characteristics of female Musca autumnalis and domestica. I would be glad if someone came up with some. The key that I have splits these species on some minor but stable variations of thoracic chaetotaxy that is not visible on photos. Males are easy to separate, but females are tough. Yellow can be present on the abdomen of females, I think someone else has related this to the temperature present when the adult develops. My limited experience with Musca domestica and autumnalis is that the former species occurs close to swine farms and in villages, whereas autumnalis can be found to be associated with cattle and usually can be found on pastures. But I do not know how representative my observations are. Gabor Keresztes Japan Wildlife Gallery Carpathian Basin Wildlife Gallery |
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| Juergen Peters |
Posted on 16-10-2007 17:03
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Member Location: northwest Germany Posts: 14070 Joined: 11.09.04 |
Hello, Gabor! Xespok wrote: My limited experience with Musca domestica and autumnalis is that the former species occurs close to swine farms and in villages I must admit that M. domestica seems to be rather a rare species here. We have no swine farms or something like that in the surroundings and our house has fly nets at the windows... So I'm still waiting for a reliably identified pic of M. domestica. Did not get a reply on this one two months ago... http://www.dipter...ad_id=7636 whereas autumnalis can be found to be associated with cattle and usually can be found on pastures. The one in this thread was photographed on a fence stake at a cattle range with cows  . There were also many males, of which I had no doubts being M. autumnalis, like the one below.
Juergen Peters attached the following image:  [67.3Kb] Best regards, Jürgen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Juergen Peters Borgholzhausen, Germany WWW: http://insektenfo... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |
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| Xespok |
Posted on 16-10-2007 18:09
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Member Location: Debrecen, Hungary Posts: 5551 Joined: 02.03.05 |
In Debrecen domestica vastly outnumbers autumnalis. As far as maies go, which are easy to separate. Though the width of the frons seems to be somewhat variable in both species, the frons is much wider in domestica in my experience. The Musca domestica females on my web site are not really identified to species, but also rely on the assumption that most of the females must belong to the same species than the abundant males. I do not have any Musca autumnalis photos uploaded yet, because they are rare here, there are too few cattles. I have made a few photos of males, but they are not processed and uploaded yet. As for your other photo, I think the wides are separated too wide, so the pic shows a female. I am helpless there. Gabor Keresztes Japan Wildlife Gallery Carpathian Basin Wildlife Gallery |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 16-10-2007 20:57
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Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7282 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Quoting from a previous thread, (see http://www.dipter...post_14030) "The colour of Musca domestica abdomen varies, often depending on where you are. Sometimes ... both male and female have pale side patches. In autumnalis the male often has bright orange patches, but the female is all grey. It's safer to rely on the relative widths of the frons and orbits. In autumnalis the male eyes are narrowly separated, and the female frontal orbits are very wide (each nearly as wide as the frontalia). In domestica the male eyes are separated by about twice the width of the third antennal segment, and the female orbits are only about a fifth the width of the frontalia. And don't forget that although these are the commonest species, there are other species in Europe as well." Hope this helps.
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| Juergen Peters |
Posted on 16-10-2007 21:37
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Member Location: northwest Germany Posts: 14070 Joined: 11.09.04 |
Hello! Tony Irwin wrote: ... Hope this helps. Thanks, Tony! This is very interesting, but I'm afraid those Muscids (Anthomyiids, Fanniids...) remain difficult for me... 
Best regards, Jürgen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Juergen Peters Borgholzhausen, Germany WWW: http://insektenfo... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 16-10-2007 22:25
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Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7282 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Basically, in the top photo, each of the pale stripes beside the eyes is the same width as the dark stripe between them, so this is an autmunalis female. Musca domestica females have much narrower pale stripes. (And most muscids and anthomyiids remain difficult for me too - even after all those years! )
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| Xespok |
Posted on 17-10-2007 07:41
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Member Location: Debrecen, Hungary Posts: 5551 Joined: 02.03.05 |
Thx Tony, this makes your previous post absolutely clear. Now I know that I have correctly identified all female Musca domestica on my web site.
Gabor Keresztes Japan Wildlife Gallery Carpathian Basin Wildlife Gallery |
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