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 Paraplatypeza bicincta?
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| Dmitry Gavryushin |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:07
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 Member Location: Moscow region, Russia Posts: 3303 Joined: 17.10.05 |
August 14, 2007, Ozhigovo station, Naro-Fominsk district, Moscow region. Size 3.5 mm. Base of M1+2 fork is closer to wing margin than to tp, tp is much longer than posterior segment of M3+4, anal cell is roughly equal to posterior segment of A1, lower branch of M1+2 fork doesn't reach wing margin, ta on the level of apical third of costal cell, so a female Paraplatypeza. I think abdominal colour pattern matches that of P. bicincta. Dmitry Gavryushin attached the following image:  [99.24Kb] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:10
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Black wrote: August 14, 2007, Ozhigovo station, Naro-Fominsk district, Moscow region. Size 3.5 mm. Base of M1+2 fork is closer to wing margin than to tp, tp is much longer than posterior segment of M3+4, anal cell is roughly equal to posterior segment of A1, lower branch of M1+2 fork doesn't reach wing margin, ta on the level of apical third of costal cell, so a female Paraplatypeza. I think abdominal colour pattern matches that of P. bicincta. what is tp? isn?t it "lower branch of M3+4 fork" for "lower branch of M1+2 fork" ? thank you, Dima.  |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:22
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
forget. it is really M1+2 I thought in R1+2!!! |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:34
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
dima, please see if this is ok.
jorgemotalmeida attached the following image:  [149.35Kb] Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 15-08-2007 10:36 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:37
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
x cell and y cell - which are these cells? and what about ?? vein and ??? vein? Sometimes I don?t know if it is R1+2 or just R1  What is the rule? (the same for M1+2 , M3+4, or M1, M2, M3.. )Thank you. Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 15-08-2007 10:39 |
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| Dmitry Gavryushin |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:46
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Member Location: Moscow region, Russia Posts: 3303 Joined: 17.10.05 |
?? = a (anal cell). The rest that applies is in the image (I'm not much of a venation master to explain all the rest, hope you'll forgive me...). 1 = ta, 2 = tp, 3 = M3+4.
Dmitry Gavryushin attached the following image:  [59.3Kb] Edited by Dmitry Gavryushin on 15-08-2007 10:47 |
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| cosmln |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:46
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 Member Location: Romania Posts: 956 Joined: 18.03.07 |
please update that file... with all that. also i will be greatfull to see a similar file (photo) with al the other aprevioation (dc, sc... and so on) maybe a sticky topic with couple of similar post? that will be great. thanks, cosmln |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 10:51
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
thanks, Dima. Let's go wait for venation experts. But I want to fix some things. First, the ?? vein refers REALLY to the vein, not to the cell. The anal cell is marked by z cell (?) what is really the meaning of ta? and tp? |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 11:00
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
other... see. Your 2 (of Dima) seems to be crossvein M-M. Is it right? tp = M-M... but what is the meaning of tp? jorgemotalmeida attached the following image:  [67.87Kb] Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 15-08-2007 11:03 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 11:01
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
what are the vein X, vein Y, vein Z? and what about the blue line -- it belongs to the M vein.. (but is it really the M1+2?), AND the yellow line it belongs too to the M3+4 vein? thank you. |
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| Dmitry Gavryushin |
Posted on 15-08-2007 11:39
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Member Location: Moscow region, Russia Posts: 3303 Joined: 17.10.05 |
Here's the wing of Platypezidae as it's shown in the key for the russian Far East (vol. 6, pt. 1, p. 18). There's no M3+4, a little baffling, but terminology varies, and introductory part is written by another author (not Shatalkin)...
Dmitry Gavryushin attached the following image:  [55.97Kb] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 11:42
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
I don?t understand what is the rule for separate: R1 R2+3 R4+5 I see before these schemes: R1 R2 R3 R4 or R1+2 R3+4 the same for A1+CuA2 |
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| Dmitry Gavryushin |
Posted on 15-08-2007 11:42
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Member Location: Moscow region, Russia Posts: 3303 Joined: 17.10.05 |
As I understand, your green vein is the root of R2+3 and R4+5, your blue one is M1+2, amd the yellow one's M3+4. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 11:50
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Black wrote: As I understand, your green vein is the root of R2+3 and R4+5, your blue one is M1+2, amd the yellow one's M3+4. So my first image I uploaded here, for Sc vein is really the VEIN M1, isn?t it? And the humera vein would be the real Sc vein.. are these roots have special names? It just lacks to know the other veins.. Vein Y and vein Z in the last photo I uploaded. --->> It should be easy to know which is the basic rule for naming splitting veins... (concerning the last questions I left before this post . |
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| Dmitry Gavryushin |
Posted on 15-08-2007 11:54
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Member Location: Moscow region, Russia Posts: 3303 Joined: 17.10.05 |
That's all pretty embarassing, and related to Diptera philogeny. Separate R2 to R4 are present in e.g. Psychodidae (R1 is your Sc, by the way), in most of other families the branches of the radial sector are reduced to some extent, which gives us R2+3 and R4+5. The same applies to othe sectors (M, Cu, A). You still need an expert who will put it clear and simple for you (at least in case of Platypezidae). |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 12:27
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
let?s go wait for venation wing experts. I will try to find more info about this issue, because it is very important to grasp totally so we can to be more confindent about ID. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 14:50
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
with some corrections. Please, for the experts: explain about the questions I put here. (and thank you, Dima!) jorgemotalmeida attached the following image:  [161.22Kb] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 18:20
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
waiting for confirmation. Please tell if this legend is correct or no. And don?t forget to clarify the issues I put before. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2007 23:12
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
it seems that there are so many variability in attribution of nomencl,ature for veins and cells, hence the difficulty. But I wonder what is the basic rule for split these examples: R1, R2, R3 R1, R2+3, R4+5 R1+2, R3+4 When the R1 turns R1+2? To know whcih books/artciles are clear about this issue would be great. Thank you. |
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but don't see the image in the post.