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Male Tabanus glaucopis? Or exclusus?-->T.glaucopis
rafael_carbonell	#1 Posted on 21-02-2017 22:39
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	Seems freshly emerged from riverside, ... not collected. (Iberia: Girona province; Beuda: Riera de Rajolins: 380 masl; 2016 August the 2nd) As I can't get at the moment the Iberian Portillo keys I have followed Kroatian keys (Krcmar, et al, 2011). Unfortunately I didn't measure it. So I think we have to look at the hairs of the vertex (pale and dark in exclusus; black in glaucopis) and the subcallus (only apically polished in exclusus and completely polished in glaucopis)... but i dont' trust too much theses features.... Tabanus glaucopis is common in my area. Can anybody help? rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [245.93Kb] Edited by rafael_carbonell on 25-01-2023 23:38


rafael_carbonell	#2 Posted on 21-02-2017 22:40
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	... more details rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [178.59Kb]


Zeegers	#3 Posted on 22-02-2017 08:44
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	Life is not so simple. You have several other species. For starters, it is not exclusus. Theo


Zeegers	#4 Posted on 22-02-2017 09:23
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	Could you please upload the fullsize of the upper left photo of the second picture ? And for future cases: please make the head shots strictly frontal and strictly lateral. these shots with oblique anglea are very hard to interpret. Thanks Theo


rafael_carbonell	#5 Posted on 22-02-2017 15:00
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	Here they are rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [50.92Kb]


rafael_carbonell	#6 Posted on 22-02-2017 15:00
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	... rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [119.46Kb]


Zeegers	#7 Posted on 22-02-2017 20:03
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	I wm sorry, my mistake: I meant upper right, the one on the orange rock (?). Theo


rafael_carbonell	#8 Posted on 22-02-2017 22:42
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	No problem... it's my finger rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [112.96Kb]


rafael_carbonell	#9 Posted on 22-02-2017 22:43
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	... rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [147.81Kb]


rafael_carbonell	#10 Posted on 22-02-2017 22:43
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	... rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [45.39Kb]


Zeegers	#11 Posted on 24-02-2017 17:22
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	You can see the very stout palpus and the antenna is black. This does not fit any species in the glaucopis group, but rather suggests cordiger group. If ther would be one eyeband, the only option with a big head is leleani, which is definitely not Spanish. So I am lost. Did you happen to note the number of eyebands ? Theo


rafael_carbonell	#12 Posted on 24-02-2017 18:26
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	I'm sorry Theo. Pictures don't help, and some parts were taken in shadow conditions. In the picture with green background the antenna don't look completely black. The subcallus looks polished in the upper part (i would suspect is more unpolished as it was freshly emerged). I thought this could help. I think the eyes in the lower part have at least three stripes. Next time I will collect it. rafael_carbonell attached the following image: [53.08Kb]


Zeegers	#13 Posted on 25-02-2017 10:22
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	It will remain a mystery. there is only one species in the glaucopis group with stout palpi, and that is T. fraseri from Turkey...... Theo


rafael_carbonell	#14 Posted on 25-02-2017 12:26
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	We have had this discussion before (with a female Tabanus): http://www.diptera.info/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=5&thread_id=54882 When you say "stout" do you mean thick? Or short? There are pictures on the web (some of the from this site) of "Tabanus glaucopis male" that look similar. But anyway all my specimens are smaller than they should. May be I can send them to you? All the best anyway, Rafael Edited by rafael_carbonell on 25-02-2017 12:26


Zeegers	#15 Posted on 25-02-2017 13:00
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	I didn't realize you collected this male ! If I have it on my desk, the mystery is likely soon solved. So I'd like to study it. If you need my postl address, send me a PM. Thanks Theo


rafael_carbonell	#16 Posted on 25-02-2017 13:07
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	Ok, is the same I used when I send you tachinids Rafael


Zeegers	#17 Posted on 25-02-2017 15:30
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	Yes, it is. Thanks Theo


Zeegers	#18 Posted on 03-03-2017 16:04
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	I looked at it again. This is not glaucopis and I am pretty sure it is the male of leleani. This would, however, be the first record for Spain. Leleani is generally more eastern, but it has been recorded from Morocco. So, maybe this year you can find this species again and collected ! Would be a first for Spain. Theo


Zeegers	#19 Posted on 03-03-2017 16:04
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	By the way, the material you sent are typical glaucopis, as already noted by yourself. I agree. Teho


rafael_carbonell	#20 Posted on 25-01-2023 22:52
Member Location: Beuda, Girona, Catalonia Posts: 655 Joined: 23.03.06	Ok

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