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Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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Egle minuta
Stephen R
#1 Print Post
Posted on 29-03-2011 17:59
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3-mm, Clitheroe UK, 28 March 2011

This smaller species arrives convincingly at the lyneborgi/minuta couplet, and from the cercal plate and surstyli it looks very like minuta. What should I check to make sure it isn't E. suwai?
Stephen R attached the following image:


[95.14Kb]
Edited by Stephen R on 02-04-2011 14:14
 
javanerkelens
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Posted on 29-03-2011 21:04
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By change i got today a Egle minuta by post (from Dick Belgers) and it was nice to see.(New for the Netherlands) Comparing it to your fly i don't think it is E.ciliata. Also we can see long pv on the hind femur, so likely again E. rhinotmeta.
The differents between E.lyneborgi / suwai are really difficult to make .
E. lyneborgi = Surstyli in lateral view relatively broad. Apical extension of cerci often somewhat tapering on distal third. Pstgonite without anterior transverse edge.
E. suwai = Surstyli in lateral view relatively narrow. Apical extension of cerci not tapering on distal third. Postgonit with anterior transverse edge.
(ref: Revision of the willow catkin flies, genus Egle from V.Michelsen)

I show also a photo of the genitals from E.minuta i made today..(not very sharp, but genitals where less then a millimetre)
javanerkelens attached the following image:


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Edited by javanerkelens on 29-03-2011 21:05
 
Stephen R
#3 Print Post
Posted on 30-03-2011 01:01
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I'm sure it's not E. rhinotmeta. Comparing the specimen, the setae in the photo are anterior to the femur and look longer because they project forward. The pvs are much shorter and don't show in the picture. Anyway, there's no group of bristles by the st5 processes.

I'm attempting a proper genital preparation so I can get a better look. At the moment it looks very like yours. Congratulations on the photo - I don't think I'll be able to do that!
 
javanerkelens
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Posted on 30-03-2011 13:43
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Maybe it could be Egle parva.
The parafacial seems about same width as postpedicel and lower margin seems also projected.
Egle minuta has the parafacial much smaller and lower marging only slightly projected.
Hindfemur of E. parva has more pv than E.minuta

I made some photos of the hind and midleg of E.minuta, so maybe you can compare.
But keeps difficult with those little one's, they are very simular ,also on genitals!
javanerkelens attached the following image:


[119.53Kb]
 
javanerkelens
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Posted on 30-03-2011 13:43
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Mid leg
javanerkelens attached the following image:


[103.9Kb]
 
Stephen R
#6 Print Post
Posted on 30-03-2011 19:16
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I'm really struggling with this one! The genitalia are not any easier to see now they are completely transparent - I don't know how you managed that photo; did you take it through the microscope? I still think they look like the drawings for E. minuta: the cercal plate strongly waisted and the surstyli with the thumb-like step on the inner edge (E. parva doesn't seem to have this). I haven't yet managed to separate out the internal bits, but I'll keep trying. Should have started on something bigger!

Here is a photo of the specimen I am examining in case I've got mixed up and it isn't the one in the live photo. I see what you mean about E. parva, and I was a bit uncertain about the 'single row of hairs' on the gena in Michael's key, as the ones on mine are not in a neat row at all. The tibiae don't look too different from yours if I put them at the same angle. I find the facial measurements tricky because they are so dependent on view point.
Stephen R attached the following image:


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Edited by Stephen R on 30-03-2011 19:28
 
javanerkelens
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Posted on 30-03-2011 23:05
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Hmmm....do I see very dark haltares on this photo ?
And does the analvein reach the costa .....or does it seems so....?
Did you check also for Drymeia (Muscidae).....
Maybe it is possible to make a drawing of the genitals (does not have to be like.. a Rembrand..)
 
Stephen R
#8 Print Post
Posted on 31-03-2011 00:08
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Yes, the anal vein does reach the margin, though it gets a bit faint. I think the halteres have darkened with drying (perhaps because the fly was quite newly emerged).

I'm not sure if I've still got the genitals - keep losing them - but I'll have another look tomorrow and do a sketch.

 
Stephen R
#9 Print Post
Posted on 31-03-2011 13:35
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No, I took the maceration/dissection too far and it's all unrecognisable Sad. All I can say is that they looked very much like the ones you showed and like the illustrations for E. minuta. If the habitus is wrong, it will have to stay uncertain until I can collect more. Not much chance in today's weather. If I can, I'll send you one, Joke. Thanks for your help Joke and Oxycera!
 
javanerkelens
#10 Print Post
Posted on 31-03-2011 16:24
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Dont give up the hope!

Next time, just again cut of the last part of the abdomen, put it in a small box and pour some boiling water on it and put it all away for one day.
Then the genitals are weak enough.
Take it all then into a box with only the bottom a little wet, so the genitals keep wet and not dry up. (not to much water otherwise the genitals keep turning in the water!)
Then you can separate the important parts with a needle and pair of tweezers.
Put the genitals afterwards in alcohol.
(I use KOH to soften the genitals, but with boiling water it mostly also works)

And of courseyou always can send me some species!Smile
Edited by javanerkelens on 31-03-2011 16:26
 
Stephen R
#11 Print Post
Posted on 31-03-2011 18:37
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Well, I did find two more males that I think are the same species, so I'll have a go at this one and save the other in alcohol for Joke.
Stephen R attached the following image:


[76.22Kb]
 
Stephen R
#12 Print Post
Posted on 02-04-2011 00:56
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Now I feel a bit better Cool.

I've prepared a nice pickle for you, Joke. Two males like this, one like E. rhinotmeta and lots of assorted females for company. Put your address in a PM and I'll send it Smile.
Stephen R attached the following image:


[51.3Kb]
 
javanerkelens
#13 Print Post
Posted on 02-04-2011 12:57
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Congratulations! Nice job!
I will send you a PM....

Joke
 
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23.09.21 15:29
All sorted.

16.09.21 22:24
Sorry put 5 new threads in Asilidae forum instead in Syrphidae forum, can pleas an admin move it to Syrph? THANKS, Norbert

09.09.21 07:48
https://www.jeugdb
ondsuitgeverij.nl/
product/de-vliegen
families-met-drie-
voetkussentjes/

09.09.21 07:47
wing ventation is totally different

03.09.21 12:51
Hi, what's the major difference between dolichopodidae and rhagionidae? Can someone help me? Thanks!

28.06.21 15:24
thx TO eklans

03.06.21 11:11
@Tony Irwin Thank you Tony! I've emailed you there Pfft

02.06.21 22:26
Rob - can you PM me with an e-mail address, and I'll send it over.

02.06.21 13:16
Hello chaps! Does anyone have a copy of: Revision of the willow catkin flies, genus Egle Robineau-Desvoidy (Diptera: Anthomyiidae), in Europe and neighbouring areas ?? I'd be ever so grateful! Rob

31.05.21 14:31
The part that got deleted is "longer, dark median stripe on thorax"

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