Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
 Muscidae Phaonia? female
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| blowave |
Posted on 30-10-2010 17:50
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 Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Hello, 24th October on my wall, near Lincoln UK. 2 pics Janet 
blowave attached the following image:  [139.19Kb] Edited by blowave on 14-11-2010 17:38 http://cubits.org... |
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| blowave |
Posted on 30-10-2010 17:51
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
pic 2
blowave attached the following image:  [138.93Kb] http://cubits.org... |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 31-10-2010 23:27
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 Member Location: Clitheroe Lancashire UK Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
That posterodorsal bristle on the hind tibia suggests Phaonia. |
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| blowave |
Posted on 01-11-2010 01:15
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Thanks Stephen, that's a pointer I will try to remember! Off to look again at Phaonia.. http://cubits.org... |
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| blowave |
Posted on 01-11-2010 01:33
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
We have a very long list of Phaonia! The creamy tip to the scutellum might give a clue but I don't have keys..
http://cubits.org... |
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| blowave |
Posted on 14-11-2010 17:39
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Can anyone say what this is? 
http://cubits.org... |
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| oxycera |
Posted on 14-11-2010 18:36
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Member Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire Posts: 251 Joined: 31.12.09 |
Phaonia angelicae might be considered to be a reasonable suggestion. |
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| blowave |
Posted on 14-11-2010 19:01
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
oxycera wrote: Phaonia angelicae might be considered to be a reasonable suggestion. Thanks John, that does sound reasonable. Can we say, in Stephane's words, it has t2 with 1 or 2 pv, t3 with an additionnal pd in basal third I'm not sure if those two bristles on t2 are pv but yes they do look to be coming from that direction! blowave attached the following image:  [114.39Kb] http://cubits.org... |
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| oxycera |
Posted on 14-11-2010 19:29
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Member Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire Posts: 251 Joined: 31.12.09 |
Yes, I did look for that basal pd bristle on t3 and I thought I could see it (just) but it is open to doubt from the photo, I suppose. |
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| blowave |
Posted on 23-12-2010 01:11
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Could this be Phaonia errans? I'm not sure about the two neat rows of pre-sutural ac's though which this fly has.
http://cubits.org... |
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| oxycera |
Posted on 24-12-2010 22:32
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Member Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire Posts: 251 Joined: 31.12.09 |
Errans seems very likely but I only have 1 female; it doesn't have the line of ac's by the pre-sut vittae and the front femora has long bristles in various planes. Still, I think you're probably right. |
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| blowave |
Posted on 24-12-2010 23:15
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Check out the photos of the female specimen on this site, it's a good match.. I think it has those small pre-sut ac's, maybe the dark pattern is concealing them. http://213.139.16...errans.htm http://cubits.org... |
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| oxycera |
Posted on 24-12-2010 23:27
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Member Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire Posts: 251 Joined: 31.12.09 |
Mmm, certainly show the long femoral bristles; I don't think the a-c pre-sut setae on your photo are significant (although I'm not altogether certain we're lookinbg at the same thing). |
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| blowave |
Posted on 25-12-2010 01:06
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
I'm putting the Paul hat on, ac 
http://cubits.org... |
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| oxycera |
Posted on 25-12-2010 14:01
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Member Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire Posts: 251 Joined: 31.12.09 |
Those ac's are still fine, even though somewhat aligned, so I wouldn't disqualify errans on that count, though there is no such arrangement on my specimen - there may be a danger of 'splitting hairs' with this |
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| blowave |
Posted on 25-12-2010 15:43
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
I agree with the danger of splitting hairs, but there's a few minor niggles with me even though the T2&3 bristles look to match, thorax and abdomen pattern look 'spot' on. There's a lot of Phaonia species but photos of only a few species. I found a thread of Roger's with P. errans, it has the slightly fuscated cross veins which mine don't appear to have, and the wings on mine are tinted but I'm not sure that makes a difference. His fly also doesn't have the neat rows of pre-sut ac's. http://www.dipter...pid=110580 One other difference hitting me in the eye is the two ac's above the scutellum, on my fly they splay out at an angle. Not having the experience, nor keys, I am not in a position to say anything for sure! I would like to know what Stephane thinks, how about it Stephane? Here's a list of our Phaonia.. http://www.dipter...p?id=18206 http://cubits.org... |
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| oxycera |
Posted on 25-12-2010 16:28
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Member Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire Posts: 251 Joined: 31.12.09 |
I find I have 2 specimens - both have 2 pairs of ac's above the scutellum, neither are splayed out. Then your specimen has those pre-sut ac's in alignment by the vittae and there appear to be no long bristles to speak of on the front femora. Time to bow out gracefully I'm afraid. |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 25-12-2010 17:01
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 Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
I don't really know with these pictures which could be misleading. I have doubts on P. errans because I can see only 1 pair of prescutellar setae, because the frontal triangle is not typical for P. errans, and because I can't see the black spot on parafacial at antennae level (I know these latter are dependant of the angle of view, ambient light etc.).
Stephane. |
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| blowave |
Posted on 25-12-2010 17:23
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Thank you Stephane, there is only 1 pair of prescutellar setae. The test now is if anyone knows of a Phaonia which is similar to P errans! I have lightened that area a little.. blowave attached the following image:  [110.18Kb] http://cubits.org... |
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