Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
 Oecothea fenestralis?
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| Roger Thomason |
Posted on 29-03-2010 03:54
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 Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08 |
Toiling hard at work (sorry place of employment) going through old files and I found this poor photo (taken at a lit window at Scatsta Airport, August 2008) in among heaps of unidentifiable Sphaerophoridae, thought to be one of them mainly due to the large arista, but it is obviously not one of those. I think it may be Oecothea fenestralis Heleomyzidae. Using the Forum Search, in the old threads mention is made of the bristles on the mid tibia which this has, plus the small eyes. Am I correct. If so, another unrecorded species in Shetland. If not correct...what else can it be? Regards Roger Roger Thomason attached the following image:  [107.23Kb] Edited by Roger Thomason on 29-03-2010 04:37 |
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| phil withers |
Posted on 29-03-2010 07:10
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Member Location: Lyon, France Posts: 521 Joined: 04.03.08 |
Oecothea certainly: may also be praecox (which you can't tell just by looking). |
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| Roger Thomason |
Posted on 29-03-2010 16:14
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Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08 |
Thanks Phil I'm happy enough with Oecothea sp. although getting to species would have been better. Either way it is an unrecorded genus up here. Odd looking fly  .Regards from the frozen  (again) North,Roger |
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| Andrzej |
Posted on 29-03-2010 16:38
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Member Location: Poland Posts: 2433 Joined: 05.01.06 |
Oecothea fenestralis ! O. praecox is a troglobite 
dr. A. J. Woznica, Institute of Environmental Biology, Wroclaw University of Environmental & Life Sciences |
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| phil withers |
Posted on 29-03-2010 16:46
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Member Location: Lyon, France Posts: 521 Joined: 04.03.08 |
Not in my experience ! I think these two are often confused (and misidentified) - the editum seems to be the only reliable way to separate them. |
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| Roger Thomason |
Posted on 29-03-2010 17:07
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Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08 |
Hope this isn't going to end up in a punch-up guys. I was looking over old threads and found that O.fenestralis larvae live in small mammals burrows;http://www.dipter...d_id=16648. Well Scatsta Airport and the surrounding area is plagued with rabbits (they cull several times a year to keep down on them), so plenty of burrows. Just something that might sway it one way or another. OR NOT? Regards Roger Edited by Roger Thomason on 29-03-2010 17:07 |
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| Andrzej |
Posted on 29-03-2010 17:43
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Member Location: Poland Posts: 2433 Joined: 05.01.06 |
Hmm, we can talk also about sky and stars  O. fenestralis is in my opinion correct ! dr. A. J. Woznica, Institute of Environmental Biology, Wroclaw University of Environmental & Life Sciences |
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| Roger Thomason |
Posted on 29-03-2010 18:05
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Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08 |
As long as neither of you end up seeing stars following the aforementioned punch-up. Having previously been in a bad car accident, I can confirm that hard blows to the head does cause the illusion of seeing stars......not recommended. Well Phil, over to you... Should you prove to be wrong....by way of compensation here is a link to a site you MIGHT like..http://www.bellyu..., great site assuming the don't go bust before tomorrow Regards Roger  |
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| phil withers |
Posted on 29-03-2010 19:16
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Member Location: Lyon, France Posts: 521 Joined: 04.03.08 |
I think it's about time this issue was resolved finally - I'll get on to preparing some drawings and try to sort out the distinctions with Andrej - watch this space... in any event, you've got a new genus for the island ! |
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| rvanderweele |
Posted on 28-12-2010 22:27
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Member Location: Leiden, the Netherlands Posts: 1988 Joined: 01.11.06 |
Okay, O. praecox is a troglobyte. Does that mean the key in Czerny is not reliable? I have here Oecothea, but with the antenna yellowish red, so.....The specimen is from Nunspeet, the Netherlands...not a cave or grotto within many miles.... ruud van der weele rvanderweele@gmail.com |
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| Jan Willem |
Posted on 28-12-2010 23:34
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 Member Location: Waalwijk, The Netherlands Posts: 2169 Joined: 24.07.04 |
Interesting discussion! I've also several specimens I identified as O. praecox from an area (Tilburg, the Netherlands) where no cave is to be found anywhere near. Of course, my identification may be wrong . Anyway I will be following this discussion! Jan Willem van Zuijlen |
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| rvanderweele |
Posted on 28-12-2010 23:44
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Member Location: Leiden, the Netherlands Posts: 1988 Joined: 01.11.06 |
Well, Jan Willem, after sending my previous message I looked at some Oecothea's from the caves in Zuid Limburg. Yes, the antennae are yellowish, but I can't say that the antennae of the "true" fenestralis are blackish, because they are certainly not. I am too lazy to go upstairs now, but I believe that in Laci's key no drawing of the genitals of praecox is given. I wonder whether it is very similar as fenestralis. I am very curious for Andrzej's opinion. ruud van der weele rvanderweele@gmail.com |
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| rvanderweele |
Posted on 29-12-2010 21:35
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Member Location: Leiden, the Netherlands Posts: 1988 Joined: 01.11.06 |
I put on TaxNet the article of Carles-Tolra about the female Oecothea ushinskii. It is indeed a pity that he did not put a drawing of O. praecox and even worse it is a pity that I do not have a description of the male O. ushinskii. In fact it would have been nice to have a good key to all European Oecothea species. Any way, having said this, looking at the "O. praecox" from the Netherlands, which I have here, so from the Amsterdam collection, which are collected in caves, it is possible that they are O. ushinskii, since the palpus are indeed as drawn by Carles-Tolra. Does any body has a good drawing of the palpus of a true praecox? ruud van der weele rvanderweele@gmail.com |
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| Andrzej |
Posted on 29-12-2010 22:11
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Member Location: Poland Posts: 2433 Joined: 05.01.06 |
Hmm, Ruud ! Did you know Gorodkov work on Oecothea from 1959 ? Andrzej dr. A. J. Woznica, Institute of Environmental Biology, Wroclaw University of Environmental & Life Sciences |
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| rvanderweele |
Posted on 29-12-2010 22:12
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Member Location: Leiden, the Netherlands Posts: 1988 Joined: 01.11.06 |
No, that is, yes I heard of it, no, I do not have a copy of it.
ruud van der weele rvanderweele@gmail.com |
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| Andrzej |
Posted on 29-12-2010 22:15
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Member Location: Poland Posts: 2433 Joined: 05.01.06 |
So, no more comments about it
dr. A. J. Woznica, Institute of Environmental Biology, Wroclaw University of Environmental & Life Sciences |
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| rvanderweele |
Posted on 29-12-2010 22:22
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Member Location: Leiden, the Netherlands Posts: 1988 Joined: 01.11.06 |
As I indicated I have the article of Carles-Tolra (1997) with the drawings of females ushinkii and fenestralis. I have Gorodkov's work in Bei-Bienko and of course the key of Laci with the Hungarian species
ruud van der weele rvanderweele@gmail.com |
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