Diptera.info - Discussion Forum: Empidae-Which one?<Bicellaria sp.

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Empidae-Which one?<Bicellaria sp.
Roger Thomason	#1 Posted on 16-09-2008 15:21
Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08	Looks like some kind of Empid. Photo taken some time ago, so can't remember the size, but looks pretty small. <4-6mm? Only have the one pic. Roger Thomason attached the following image: [108.1Kb] Edited by Roger Thomason on 17-09-2008 17:02


Nikita Vikhrev	#2 Posted on 16-09-2008 16:44
Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9558 Joined: 24.05.05	Hybotidae, Hybos, I think Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University


Kahis	#3 Posted on 16-09-2008 16:59
Member Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04	Definitely Hybotidae. Bicellaria? Kahis


Roger Thomason	#4 Posted on 16-09-2008 17:13
Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08	Thanks for the ID's guys. My checklist has Hybos femoratus on it, or Bicellaria sulcata if it's one of those? Who can tell? . Regard Roger Just looked in the Gallery and that rules out H.femoratus Edited by Roger Thomason on 16-09-2008 17:22


igor	#5 Posted on 16-09-2008 18:16
Member Location: Posts: 327 Joined: 23.11.06	Bicellaria


Adrian	#6 Posted on 17-09-2008 08:26
Member Location: Posts: 69 Joined: 05.01.07	Did you take this photo in the Shetlands? Interestingly, the recording Scheme doesn't have any records of Bicellaria from Shetland although a few have been found in Orkney and 2-3 spp are likely in Shetland. It looks like B vana to me, although the thorax is perhaps rather too shining If you have the spec and send it to me I can det it for you cheers Adrian


Roger Thomason	#7 Posted on 17-09-2008 09:38
Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08	Photo taken in my garden in Mossbank, Shetland on 27/07/08 @08.27,(a bit early for a Sunday,looking up the calendar) My checklist has Bicellaria sulcata on it. List is available over the web on http://www.nature-shetland.co.uk/entomology/diptera.htm I do not take specimens. Regards Roger


Adrian	#8 Posted on 17-09-2008 14:57
Member Location: Posts: 69 Joined: 05.01.07	Thanks Roger:- I'll check out the link Re B sulcata:- while you may well be correct in determining R sulcata from Shetland I'd be intersted to hear how you determined it without taking the specimen. Despite Chvala and Collins keys giving apparently clear distinctions between sulcata and vana they are actually very difficult to separate other than by male genitalia. I have checked scores of specimens in different collections which were placed under sulcata but which turned out to be the fantastically common B. vana when dissected. Determining collected specimens of Bicellaria can be difficult enough but field identification would require almost supernatural skills, certainly far in advance of my own paltry efforts. I really do urge you to think about collecting critical species for identification Hope this help best wishes Adrian


Roger Thomason	#9 Posted on 17-09-2008 16:50
Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08	Hi Adrian I never did determine that it was B.sulcata, I merely stated that it was on my checklist. I'll put it down as Bicellaria sp. to keep you happy Regards Roger


Adrian	#10 Posted on 18-09-2008 08:32
Member Location: Posts: 69 Joined: 05.01.07	Hi Roger Many thanks:- my mistake. I see that the records on your checklist are mostly attributed to Brian Laurence. I had some data for the recording scheme from him some years back but obviously need to contact him again for an update. Incidentally:- a nice site, keep up the good work cheers Adrian


Roger Thomason	#11 Posted on 18-09-2008 09:30
Member Location: Mossbank,Shetland Isles. Posts: 5269 Joined: 17.07.08	Hi Adrian I need to get an updated list too, as a lot of the stuff I'm finding isn't on the list. I have nothing to do with the site other than posting off photo's, most of which never see the light of day . Regards Roger