Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Tachinid for ID, SE Spain
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 08-12-2011 17:13
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 Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Well, here is the other red-abdomened Tachinid taken by my friend Francisco Rodriguez in Almeria, SE Spain on the 15th April 2011. In bushes in the mountains. Seeing now the real dorsal view, even myself can see it isn't Clairvilia  and see the chances of Eriotrix or Zeuxia. But surely there are more options. Leave it to the experts  Thanks in advance for any help! Piluca_Alvarez attached the following image:  [162.64Kb] Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 08-12-2011 17:16 |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 08-12-2011 17:15
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Another view.
Piluca_Alvarez attached the following image:  [150.15Kb] |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 08-12-2011 18:38
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 Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Hmm, I can only say Zeuxia or Eriothrix 
Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 09-12-2011 13:47
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Thanks, Chris Let's hope we can get the genus for sure! |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 09-12-2011 17:19
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19317 Joined: 21.07.04 |
The arista is plumose, so it can't be Eriothrix. Zeuxia zernyi is very similar to Eriothrix in appearence. Theo |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 10-12-2011 11:22
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Thanks Theo! What do you need to confirm Zeuxia? Or even Z. zernyi? He told be he has about 10 pictures of this fly |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 10-12-2011 11:42
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19317 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Need to have a look in my collection and I have the flue at the moment. Theo |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 10-12-2011 11:47
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Get well soon Theo - and don't sneeze on the tachinids!! I have some Zeuxia zernyi and they do look *very* like these photographs - much cleaner colours - darker black and brighter orange than most Eriothrix that I have seen. But, that said, I wouldn't like to say that this is Z.zernyi because there might be other species that look very similar. Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 10-12-2011 12:03
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Awfully sorry about you being sick. Theo  Forget about our Tachinids and get well Thanks, Chris! I have a total mental caos with all these similar genus and species. The worst part is some similar species belong to different genera and look more similar than species belonging to the same genus. Madness  For the moment, they are a mystery to me |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 10-12-2011 12:26
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Yes, tachinids make a great argument for collecting specimens! Wasp parasitoids are similarly very biodiverse and show lots of very similar morphology.
Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 10-12-2011 12:53
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
This might help a bit. Cannot be sure if it is exactly the same specimen, but it was one of those flies on the infamous plant It landed on Francisco's hand. I think it is al least the same species. Way too similar. And I can see something that I saw in the previous fly but couldn't see properly due to the lighting: It doesn't have a petiole!! Do all Zeuxia spp. have a petiole? Of all the species found in Spain: - aberrans - antoniae - cinerea - sicardi - subapennina - zernyi I know sicardi and cinerea have a petiole. If it is a common feature of Zeuxia, then it has to be something else. But I have no idea if it is or not
Piluca_Alvarez attached the following image:  [167.09Kb] Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 10-12-2011 12:54 |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 10-12-2011 12:55
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
And the lateral view.
Piluca_Alvarez attached the following image:  [163.79Kb] |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 10-12-2011 15:28
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19317 Joined: 21.07.04 |
this is sicardi, the other option sicardi has marginals on syntergite 1&2, zernyi does not. I am recovering, thank you Theo |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 10-12-2011 15:42
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Thanks a bunch, Theo!! But I am now even more confused than I was All pictures of Zeuxia sicardi that I have found IDed in the forum had a neat long petiole. This one hasn't, and I ruled it out. Is there such interindividual variation? If it is so, I'd better give up Tachinids |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 10-12-2011 16:01
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
OK, I have checked my Z.sicardi (x3) and zernyi (x2): - sicardi: long petiole, excavation does not reach the margin of T1+1 (T1+2 is a long segment), T1+2 has long marginals; T3 no median discals. - zernyi: tiny petiole (r4+5 & median meet at the wing margin); excavation reaches the margin of T1+2 (T1+2 is a short segment); T1+2 has no median marginals; T3 has median discals. On the "finger" photos and the first photo I think that: T1+2 has no marginals: there is a short/no petiole; & has median discals on T3 so it should be zernyi
Edited by ChrisR on 10-12-2011 16:05 Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 11-12-2011 20:44
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Chris, thank you soooo much for checking! I really like your little key! Let's wait for Theo's view on this. If he agrees, sorry guys, but I am not going to give up Tachinids But Theo, please, recover yourself before dealing with this. Health is much more important  |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 12-12-2011 10:17
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19317 Joined: 21.07.04 |
In the last pic, I thought I clearly saw marginal seta on syntergite 1&2. Am I mistaking ? Are we sure we are looking at one specimen ?? Another point of concern is the lateral inclined frontal seta. I have not seen that in zernyi, but maybe I have only males in my collection. Chris, could you check for this please ? Theo |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 12-12-2011 11:38
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
The top two images are a different specimen than the bottom two. The patterns of pollen on the specimens are different and the dust patterns on the mesonotum are also somewhat different.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 12-12-2011 12:04
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Certainly - I have 2 zernyi (1 male and 1 female) from the French Pyrenees. Sadly the females frontal bristles are all mashed up and disoriented, but the male's are perfect and it has a pair of very strong lateroclinate bristles anterior to the inner verticals and anterolateral to the occelli ... I guess this would be an outer-orbital bristle. I have only a few male sicardi but none have the lateroclinate bristles. This is assuming that my Z.zernyi are correctly identified but I worked on all of my Zeuxia earlier in the year and spent many hours checking them and was quite happy in the end with the IDs. I will try to take some photos of them if I can today
Edited by ChrisR on 12-12-2011 12:19 Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 12-12-2011 23:22
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Here is my male "Z.zernyi" - head first:
ChrisR attached the following image:  [118.16Kb] Edited by ChrisR on 12-12-2011 23:24 Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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