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 Another wingless hybotid?
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| Rui Andrade |
Posted on 10-09-2008 18:04
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 Member Location: Portugal Posts: 3123 Joined: 19.06.07 |
Could this fly be another wingless hybotid? location: Apúlia, Portugal date: 06/09/2008 size: a little more than 1 mm    
Edited by Rui Andrade on 10-09-2008 18:06 |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 10-09-2008 18:15
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Wow, yes. Chersodromia, I think.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Rui Andrade |
Posted on 11-09-2008 00:17
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 3123 Joined: 19.06.07 |
Thank you Paul . I think only three species are recorded from continental Spain: C. flavipes, C. nigrosetosa and C. oraria. Could this be one of them? |
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| David Gibbs |
Posted on 11-09-2008 10:23
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 Member Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 833 Joined: 17.06.06 |
I am not aware of any brachipterous Chersodromia but it does look like this genus. So is it a new species or just a short-winged form of a known species? you will need to get males and dissect to answer that. The sand grains suggest you might have found it on a beach? There is a tiny species that I have found on a beach in Mallorca, C. albopilosa, which has that same grey cast and milky wings but all the specimens i have found are macropterous. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 11-09-2008 11:30
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
the apulia beach is a treasure!  |
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| Rui Andrade |
Posted on 11-09-2008 15:27
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 3123 Joined: 19.06.07 |
David Gibbs wrote: I am not aware of any brachipterous Chersodromia but it does look like this genus. So is it a new species or just a short-winged form of a known species? you will need to get males and dissect to answer that. The sand grains suggest you might have found it on a beach? There is a tiny species that I have found on a beach in Mallorca, C. albopilosa, which has that same grey cast and milky wings but all the specimens i have found are macropterous. Hi David, Yes, I found it in sand dunes. But those dunes are very affected by human activity, with people stepping on them, throwing garbage, etc  . Nevertheless it's part of the Esposende coast protected area. If possible me and Jorge will go there very soon. |
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| phil withers |
Posted on 11-09-2008 17:31
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Member Location: Lyon, France Posts: 521 Joined: 04.03.08 |
David: where in Mallorca ? I am at S'Albufera (again) next week... |
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| David Gibbs |
Posted on 11-09-2008 18:02
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Member Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 833 Joined: 17.06.06 |
phil withers wrote: David: where in Mallorca ? I am at S'Albufera (again) next week... Es Comu, at S'Albufera. They are tiny, you have to crawl along on hands and knees at the head of the beach close to the dunes looking for fast moving specks. Catch them by simply placing a tube over them and letting them run up into it. They were very common in April 2006, less so in May 2007. |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 11-09-2008 19:11
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
In Chv?la's 1977 revision is one truely brachypterous species, C. curtipennis, but from its description I gather the wings are at least twice as long as in this picture. I think more species have been decribed since but I have no overview of those.
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 12-09-2008 08:29
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
I don't know whether it is by chance, that someone tipped him of about this thread or that he visited the site without being logged in (his last visit was in July), but Igor Shamshev just sent me an electronic reprint of the following paper: Grootaert, P., & I. Shamshev, 2008. Notes on the halobiont genus Chesodromia (Diptera: Hybotidae) from Tunisia with the description of a new brachypterous species and notes on brachyptery in empidoids. - Bulletin de la Societe Royale Belge d'Entomologie 144: 57-63. When I compare the description of C. tunisiana with the above images, there is an uncanny resemblance. I think we may have found a name. Edited by Paul Beuk on 12-09-2008 11:34 Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Rui Andrade |
Posted on 12-09-2008 11:07
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 3123 Joined: 19.06.07 |
Thank you Paul. We have at least a new species for Europe  . |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 12-09-2008 22:36
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
News: I went to the Apulia beach today. Andrade can't go with me. Maybe in the next time.  I saw many hybotids with white longitudinal stripes (anterior position) in their abdomen. The position of the body is very diferent from this hybotid of Andrade. The head is more high than the abdomen. The Chersadromia's body (seen by Andrade) seems more near from the ground. The hybotids I saw are really minus 1 mm. Some with a little more than 1 mm. Also I found a 5 mm black coal hybotid (from which I could take some photos and will show them soon. hopefully this saturday. The other smaller - you must wait a little more. I cannot take photos for now, also I couldn't take the photos of these tiny hybotids on the beach due the strong wind - they were so soft,,, hence everytime I focused them, they keep up only less 1 second on the ground and then... the wind left off them more longer  ) I'll give more news soon... |
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| Susan R Walter |
Posted on 13-09-2008 21:24
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 Member Location: Touraine du Sud, central France Posts: 1802 Joined: 14.01.06 |
Another new for Europe  Heavens Rui! Well done
Susan |
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| Rui Andrade |
Posted on 13-09-2008 22:12
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 3123 Joined: 19.06.07 |
Thank you so much for your support Susan I think this should be a male:    |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 13-09-2008 22:25
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
this is precisely the fly I saw yesterday. |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 16-10-2008 08:53
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Well, I have some good news, I think. Yesterday Rui's specimens arrived and I did have a look just now. The bad news: It is not C. tunisiana. The genitalia do not match, there are differences in chaetotaxy (acorstichals are virtually indistinguishable and there is only one dorsal seta on the hind tibia and there are two anterodorsal ones) and as far as I can tell, wing venation is virtually indistinguishable and the wing shape is different. The good news: It is not one of the brachypterous species mentioned in the Grootaert and Shamshev paper (though the genitalia are more reminisecent of C. curtipennis of the Black Sea Coast [Nikita, are you listening ], the wings are too short). So, we may have a new species on our hands.
Edited by Paul Beuk on 16-10-2008 09:48 Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 16-10-2008 09:39
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9459 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Congratulations! Felicitacion!
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Rui Andrade |
Posted on 17-10-2008 00:01
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 3123 Joined: 19.06.07 |
Fantastic!!! Thank you Paul and Nikita. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 19-10-2008 19:19
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Paul Beuk wrote: Well, I have some good news, I think. Yesterday Rui's specimens arrived and I did have a look just now. The bad news: It is not C. tunisiana. The genitalia do not match, there are differences in chaetotaxy (acorstichals are virtually indistinguishable and there is only one dorsal seta on the hind tibia and there are two anterodorsal ones) and as far as I can tell, wing venation is virtually indistinguishable and the wing shape is different. The good news: It is not one of the brachypterous species mentioned in the Grootaert and Shamshev paper (though the genitalia are more reminisecent of C. curtipennis of the Black Sea Coast [Nikita, are you listening ], the wings are too short). So, we may have a new species on our hands. hmm... I think I sent for you the flies. Anyway, it is another great fly. I have seen dozen hmm, better to say: thousands of them! They wandering in slopes' dunes. And even against strong wind! impressive strenght this fly has! It could be a Chersodromia arenarius or a Chersodromia fortius.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 19-10-2008 19:20 |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 20-10-2008 07:43
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Jorge, if you sent any of these flies they never arrived (only those of the Tachydromia). Still, if you have more specimens available: For correct description I could well do with more specimens as it will be necessary to make microscope slides because these flies are so tiny. So far I have nine specimens that Rui sent, but only three of these are males (one damaged, so the first likely candidate to be slided).
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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