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Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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Sarcophaga africa ?
zcuc
#1 Print Post
Posted on 06-12-2007 10:15
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Location: Israel
Posts: 492
Joined: 08.10.07

10mm, Israel.

It has plumose hind tibia and red marking on tip of abdomen
zcuc attached the following image:


[72.01Kb]
Edited by zcuc on 07-12-2007 13:06
 
zcuc
#2 Print Post
Posted on 06-12-2007 10:16
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Location: Israel
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and lateral view
zcuc attached the following image:


[71.13Kb]
 
Tony Irwin
#3 Print Post
Posted on 06-12-2007 20:27
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I'd say this was Sarcophaga africa but you may have other, related species in Israel - best to check against genitalia figures
Tony
----------
Tony Irwin
 
zcuc
#4 Print Post
Posted on 07-12-2007 13:13
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Location: Israel
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Thanks Tony,

I'm just an amateur and had never tried to extract fly genitalia. Maybe I can try and post the image of the genitalia here?
Do you know of any good referace of how to do it?
 
Andy Chick
#5 Print Post
Posted on 07-12-2007 13:33
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Location: Under a pile of unidentifed flies!
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pape 1987 gives the procedure.
 
zcuc
#6 Print Post
Posted on 07-12-2007 14:54
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Location: Israel
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Thanks for the advice Andy but I don't have this book, do you know of any internet article?
 
conopid
#7 Print Post
Posted on 07-12-2007 16:53
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Location: United Kingdom
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Hi
There is some good advice here: http://www.zmuc.dk/entoweb/sarcoweb/sarcweb/collect/Collect.htm
Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom
 
crex
#8 Print Post
Posted on 07-12-2007 16:55
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conopid wrote:
Hi
There is some good advice here: http://www.zmuc.d...ollect.htm

Clickable Wink
 
Tony Irwin
#9 Print Post
Posted on 07-12-2007 20:58
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Location: Norwich, England
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I use the technique that Thomas Pape describes, but I side-pin my Sarcophaga with big minuten (if you know what I meanSmile). The technque involves placing one minuten against the top of the abdomen, just in front of the genital segments. A second pin is then used to pull out the claspers. This usually results in the aedeagus being exposed as well, but occasionally it gets "jammed", and needs to be released gently with another pin. Often it is easier to exsert the claspers with a mounted minuten or fine needle, rather than holding one in forceps. The minuten are not pushed through the genitalia - just beside them to hold them in place until the fly is dry. Take great care when extracting the pins - it's really sad if the penis breaks off! Shock
If you have collected a specimen without exserting the genitalia, it is sometimes possible to relax them with Barber's Fluid, so they can be prised open later, but it is much easier to exsert genitalia before the fly has dried.
Tony
----------
Tony Irwin
 
zcuc
#10 Print Post
Posted on 07-12-2007 23:32
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Location: Israel
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Well this is my first try Smile
I managed to pull the genitalia from the abdomen(1) but it seem to be coverd by thin dark membrane(2) how can I remove this part? should I just torn it?
zcuc attached the following image:


[69.68Kb]
 
Zeegers
#11 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 10:17
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You are looking too high.
The orange bulb should be retracted at the ventral side from the abdomen.


Theo
 
zcuc
#12 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 12:14
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Location: Israel
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Here a ventral view before I starter to poke with my needle.
zcuc attached the following image:


[63.64Kb]
 
zcuc
#13 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 12:28
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Location: Israel
Posts: 492
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Now for the second try:
I inserted the pin at the ventral side of the abdomen and tried to push it.
It was torn with the black membrane(2), that seem to be attached fairly good to the genitalia.

Now I have two question:
1. Does anyone has genetalia reference book of Sarcophaga africa which could be compared to my images?
2. What went wrong? does anyone have a photo of well extracted genetalia of Sarcophaga so I could compare?

Thanks
zcuc attached the following image:


[49.35Kb]
 
Kahis
#14 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 12:41
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OK, now put the separated part in warm water with a drop of detergent for 15 minutes (or more) to soften it up a bit. Then you can remove the black tergites to expose the hidden cerci, surstyli etc. which are on the ventral side, in rest position hidden below the V-shaped 5th sternite.
Kahis
 
www.iki.fi/kahanpaa
Tony Irwin
#15 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 14:00
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You should find bits looking something like this. Smile
Tony Irwin attached the following image:


[33.08Kb]
Tony
----------
Tony Irwin
 
zcuc
#16 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 16:03
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Location: Israel
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I soak it inside warm water and removed the black tergites, but couldn't find any cerci?
kahis you said it should be on the ventral side, but according to the link in this post I'd exctracted the genitalia with one needle on ventral side and one on dorsal side. so maybe the cerci were ruin?

Was it suppose to be in the green circle?
zcuc attached the following image:


[49.87Kb]
 
Kahis
#17 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 17:09
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www.elisanet.fi/jere.kahanpaa/dscf4244a.jpg

Definitely the correct genus at least. Looks very similar...
Edited by Kahis on 08-12-2007 17:17
Kahis
 
www.iki.fi/kahanpaa
Susan R Walter
#18 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 18:24
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Location: Touraine du Sud, central France
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Very nice thread. Informative and productive. Many thanks to Zcuc, Tony and Kahis for going through this online.
Susan
 
http://loirenature.blogspot.com/
zcuc
#19 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 19:44
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Location: Israel
Posts: 492
Joined: 08.10.07

Wow, It was under my noise and I couldn't see it Smile Thought those black spike are left over of the black tergites.

Too bad my poor Lupa is too weak so I'm unable to get a real closeup to verify against the drawing. Tony is it possible to get id from this bad genitalia image or does this genus has many similar genitalia?

Many thanks to all of you for helping, Hope I'll improved next time.

 
Tony Irwin
#20 Print Post
Posted on 08-12-2007 20:46
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As Kahis says, it's certainly Sarcophaga subgenus Bercaea. My feeling is that the genitalia are close enough to be S. africa. There are minor differences to the africa I've seen, but that's not surprising. Although they are the best way to tell species apart, it's worth remembering that the genitalia can vary a bit. The skill is to know how much variation is "permissible"! I don't know of any other Bercaea in Israel - so I think it is safe to call this Sarcophaga (Bercaea) africa.
Tony
----------
Tony Irwin
 
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