Diptera.info

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 07-09-2014 13:02

wwozeerss!!! can you collect this for me?!
Could it be Saropogon or Molobratia? I do not know by sure.. But I would be more inclined to the former genus.

Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 07-09-2014 13:02

Posted by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 18:09

And what about Dasypogon? Dark legs and those marks on the abdomen are rather typical. Just thinking...

Jorge, I would rule out Molobratia ;)

Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 18:11

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 07-09-2014 18:42

indeed, I think Dasypogon is much better. Did you see the strong spur in the apical tibiae? :) Feature for Dasypogoninae! So Molobratia and even Saropogon could never be!!

Posted by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 20:16

Yes, I saw the nice spur ;) That's why I ruled out Molobratia (which looks different too). But also Saropogon shows the Dasypogoninae spur although usually not so well. The combination of looks, colour legs and abdominal pattern was what made me think of Dasypogon ;)

Leif, one shot and the fly takes off... I suffer from that too often ;) ;) :D

Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 20:17

Posted by Quaedfliegh on 07-09-2014 21:43

Just to comment, both Molobratia and Saropogon belong to the Dasypogoninae and do have a similar spur on front tibiae. On this picture the spurs are clear for Molobratia: http://libellchen.deviantart.com/art/Molobratia-Teutonus-187984979

Molobratia has much thinner and longer legs and has red antennae.

In Engel Molobratia is described as Dasypogon teutonus!

On this picture.

The difference between Dasypogon and Saropogon is that the mystax in Dasypogon almost reaches the antennae and in Saropogon only coveres the lower part of the face. I think we can see that....this is a Saropogon species.

Posted by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 21:57

Reinoud, thanks for all the explanations :) I see how that works now.

And I should keep my ugly mouth shut :D :D

Posted by Piluca_Alvarez on 08-09-2014 22:34

#11

In Geller-Grimm keys it is treated as Dasypononinae and also in Engel. I guess due to the fact that it has indeed an apical spur in front tibiae as other Dasypogoninae, only that it is rudimentary. In other taxonomyc classifications, it appears in Stenopogoninae. I guess it all depends on the point of view ;)

Quaedfliegh wrote:
I still have some doubts though..: )

It shouldn't be consolation but it truely conforts me a bit ;) ;) :D

Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 08-09-2014 22:38

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 08-09-2014 22:45

#12

well, int the catalog of Iberian Diptera it appears as Stenopogoninae... I doubt that someone would rely only in the tibial spur for this split.

Posted by Quaedfliegh on 09-09-2014 01:17

#13

It appeared in a lot of lists in stenopogoninae (i Always wondered why, there is a reason but not yet clear to me : )) @ Piluca, the spur is far from rudimentary! look at the picture in the link, the spurs are huge : ). At the moment i'm reading Torsten Dikow's phylogeny of the asilidae which is probably the most comprihensive study to date.
Link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1439609209000087

He places the Molobratiini in the Dasypogoninae as a tribe.

Cutting a corner.....

The split was made in the past based on the lack of spines on the ovipositor and the shape of sternite 8 by Lehr.

See page 103 Dikow. His study shows that Molobratia (Molobratiini as a tribe) is "positioned deeply in the Dasypogoninae".

Posted by Piluca_Alvarez on 11-09-2014 06:41

#14

Quaedfliegh wrote:
@ Piluca, the spur is far from rudimentary! look at the picture in the link, the spurs are huge : ) "

Thanks, Reinoud! :) Saw it now. Definitely it is a proper spur ;) Always learning something! :) :)