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 Muscidae - Mydaea orthonevra ?
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 27-09-2016 22:27
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
South-east Norway 25. 09 2016 Dirt-road, mixed forest About 8 mm. Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [175.42Kb] Edited by Morten A Mjelde on 21-10-2016 21:45 |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 27-09-2016 22:28
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
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Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [188.98Kb] |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 27-09-2016 22:29
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
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Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [165.41Kb] |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 27-09-2016 22:29
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [154.43Kb] Edited by Morten A Mjelde on 27-09-2016 22:32 |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 27-09-2016 22:33
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
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Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [166.42Kb] |
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| oceanlis2000 |
Posted on 01-10-2016 10:31
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Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10 |
Can you give us a photo of the radial node of the wing to check for any setulae? also are there stpl 1:2 or 2:2 Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 01-10-2016 13:19
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 Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
Mydaea cf. orthonevra. Katepisternales are 1:2 ( pictures 2 & 4 show only 1 anterior ks seta) and pra seems longer than post. notopleural (this point had to be confirmed) --> M. orthonevra / urbana. Then the trochanters seems to be yellow, not brown and fore tibia without p. seta --> M. orthonevra. If the pra is shorter than p. ntpl, Mydaea electa would be the alternative (this was the more frequent Mydaea species I Identified for the Swedish Malaise Trap Project). Edited by Stephane Lebrun on 01-10-2016 13:26 Stephane. |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 01-10-2016 20:08
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
I was too quick to release the fly...but thank you so much to both of you for your responses ! Rosevinge |
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| oceanlis2000 |
Posted on 07-10-2016 10:53
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Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10 |
My first guess was Mydaea also? I guess you don't have the fly to continue for confirmation, there are a couple of other points I wanted to check also, do you have any more photos that you can add? Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 07-10-2016 21:34
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
No, i don`t have the fly, but I do have some more photos. So please tell me which parts of the fly do you want to see in close-ups. Rosevinge Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [172.61Kb] |
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| oceanlis2000 |
Posted on 08-10-2016 10:30
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Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10 |
1. to be sure its a Mydaea it must have setulae on the radial node of the wing, do you have any photos of the ventral side? I can't see any on this photo 2. I can see 1 anterior stpl seta (as stated by Stephane) however I( am not sure if there is a bristle socket beneath some species have a weak 2nd stpl seta, I can't be sure at this resolution? 3. The aristal hairs appear to be as long as the width of the postpedicel so that's ok 4. The number of av on tibia 3 is also helpful to eliminate another species, I am not sure if this is 2 or 3? photo 3 looks like 2 but there may be another behind it? I guess I'm very cautious Stephane has covered it well but a positive id needs evidence Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 08-10-2016 21:24
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
1. Sorry, I don`t have any photos of the ventral side. 2. Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [169.87Kb] |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 08-10-2016 21:25
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
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Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [168.41Kb] |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 08-10-2016 21:33
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
4. difficult to say... Thank you for trying to identify this fly! Perhaps I have misunderstood what you are looking for. I admit I`m struggeling With the terminology, espcially the abbreviations... Rosevinge Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [97.55Kb] |
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| oceanlis2000 |
Posted on 14-10-2016 11:15
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Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10 |
Ok I enclose a link to show the setulae - for the future http://www.dipteristsforum.org.uk/p2584-2010-08-11-01%3A48%3A22.html always take a photo 2 it looks like its a 1:2 stpl, a higher mag shows a dark mark rather than a bristle socket next we move to tibia 3 photo 4 above, the bristles on the right side of the tibia seem to be 2av, 2 ad I need a close up where the bristles do not overlap, it looks like there are 2 upper ones and 2 lower ones, I want to check that the 2 lower ones are not 3 lower ones (3av) Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 21-10-2016 21:45
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
Maybe? Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [145.06Kb] |
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| oceanlis2000 |
Posted on 24-10-2016 14:47
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Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10 |
Every shot throws up a curve ball, 2 av obvious, the 3rd one could still be a setae from the abdomen it's not clear enough Can you try the other leg? Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK |
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| Morten A Mjelde |
Posted on 24-10-2016 21:22
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Member Location: Posts: 6215 Joined: 29.11.15 |
I`ve run out of pictures and I don`t think this closeup will help..... but it is OK. I call it:" Mydaea orthonevra ?" Rosevinge Morten A Mjelde attached the following image:  [117.51Kb] |
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| oceanlis2000 |
Posted on 28-10-2016 11:55
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Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10 |
Looks like 3, it was hiding Right lets try 1 more thing, I enclose a photo from another thread which shows where the pra and 2nd ntpl is, thanks to Stephane it is very clear Have a look for a photo that shows the length of the pra and 2nd ntpl seta oceanlis2000 attached the following image:  [87.99Kb] Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK |
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| oceanlis2000 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 12:24
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Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10 |
Assuming Mydaea (Robineau-Desvoidy) This genus is distinguished from its allies by having the third wing-vein setulose at base, fourth not curved forward at apex, tibia 3 without calcar, penultimate abdominal sternite in female with a number of short bristles, eyes of male subcontiguous, prealar bristle present, prosternum bare, face not buccate. Assuming stpl 1:2 Tibia 3 with 3 av setae – orthonevra f. detrita, stpl 1:2, pra longer than 2nd ntpl seta, tibia 3 with 3 ad (Hennig) and 2 ad (Gregor et al) 3av for orthonevra f. detrita in both Hennig, Gregor et al., 2002 Fauna Europea Norwegian mainland for Family Muscidae: Norway + 3 species Mydaea nubila Stein 1916 - Halteres mostly darkened, Hennig gives 2 p setae on tibia 2 I don't know the colour of the legs, he says that tibiae can be yellowish but nothing for the femora Mydaea palpalis Stein 1916 - Legs black Mydaea sootryeni Ringdahl 1928 - Legs black Last 2 from Gregor et al., 2002 Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK |
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but don't see the image in the post.
