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 Muscidae - Phaonia trimaculata
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-02-2007 03:32
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Hi * locality - Silgueiros - Viseu - PORTUGAL * date - 11.01.2007 * size - medium size * habitat - farmland * substrate - surface of water - the fly was dead... This fly has arista plumose in upper side... in other is not clearly visible, vbrissae are conspicous. I thought in Anthomyiidae... but it is different, it has many bristles... tachinidae is improbable, not bend in M vein, and arista is plumose in upper side, at least. I'm very curious about this one. jorgemotalmeida attached the following image:  [95.69Kb] Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 31-03-2010 14:48 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-02-2007 03:33
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
other view
jorgemotalmeida attached the following image:  [135Kb] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-02-2007 03:35
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
frontal view.
jorgemotalmeida attached the following image:  [113.18Kb] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-02-2007 03:36
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
full body...
jorgemotalmeida attached the following image:  [139.29Kb] |
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| Juergen Peters |
Posted on 15-02-2007 14:19
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 Member Location: northwest Germany Posts: 13697 Joined: 11.09.04 |
Hello, Jorge! The Limophora tigrina in the gallery looks rather similar: http://www.dipter...oto_id=490 But better wait for the experts. Best regards, Jürgen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Juergen Peters Borgholzhausen, Germany WWW: http://insektenfo... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 15-02-2007 20:52
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18546 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Can't see the wing venation, but I have little doubt this is in Anthomyiidae Theo Zeegers |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 15-02-2007 21:49
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
I have an idea  No, unfortunely I havn't idea about fly's ID  But I have idea how to make this "fly mystery" a little bit less mysterious! Jorge, what about photo with white background? Or lateral?  Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 15-02-2007 22:07
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
I have another idea without white background! It is Muscidae, male of Polietes. Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-02-2007 23:12
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
sorry, I have just these photos. It begun raining. So no white background, no other background unless surface water, hence very dark (and bad to see) background. I prefer more green background. eheThanks Nikita! seems polietes fits well. |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 15-02-2007 23:25
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
I'm sorry Jorge, I thought fly is collected. Only now I understand that it is water surface. But still Polietes, most probably P. meridionalis (golden parafascialia).
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 27-01-2008 11:48
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 Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
With the benefit of hindsight, I think this fly is Phaonia trimaculata (it has the typical pattern on scutum and scutellum). Stephane. |
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| Michael Ackland |
Posted on 14-03-2008 17:24
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Member Location: Dorset UK Posts: 680 Joined: 23.02.08 |
Not an anthomyiid. hairy eyes and large projecting lower squamae. Surely lLimnophorina or similar, but it's 40 years since I looked at them |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 14-03-2008 23:42
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
I do insist on Polietes. What can we see for sure on this image - 1. Very hairy eyes 2. Strong postsutural ac (3) 3. M not curved 4. Fly is big Michael, with such a hairy eyes it can't be Limnophora or similar. Nor 3 strong post ac. Stephane, with 3 post ac it can't be Phaonia or Helina So, Muscinae It isn't Azeliini, ok? So, Muscini So, with not curved M - Polietes. If you examin Polietes under this point with strong light, the thorastic and abdominal pattern will be similar. Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Xespok |
Posted on 15-03-2008 07:42
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 Member Location: Debrecen, Hungary Posts: 5550 Joined: 02.03.05 |
Nikita. I think I have to side with Stephane this time. I think this is a male specimen. If so, should the eyes not be closer in Polietes? Should the discal crossvein (M-Cu) not be longer and running obliquely? Should Polietes not have 4 post ac? Should Polietes not be fatter? Also the thoracical an scutellar pattern does not seem to match any Polietes. Hairy eyes is not a good marker to decide between Poleites and Phaonia. So I think this is a Phaonia around perdita, trimaculata. Gabor Keresztes Japan Wildlife Gallery Carpathian Basin Wildlife Gallery |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 15-03-2008 10:23
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Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
I explain my point of view : I don't think it's Polietes simply because they have 3+3 ac, here I see only 2+3 ac, and 3+4 dc, here I see 2+4 dc. I think the M-Cu is not enough oblique, the eyes not enough close, and the pattern well too symmetrical. I think Phaonia trimaculata can have 3 post ac (2 rather strong, and a weaker between) like on this thread : http://www.dipter...ad_id=3353 The description with Phaonia trimaculata is well fitting (eyes densely long haired for the male are OK) and the pattern on the scutum / scutellum is quite typical. Stephane Lebrun attached the following image:  [60.76Kb] Stephane. |
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| Xespok |
Posted on 15-03-2008 11:04
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Member Location: Debrecen, Hungary Posts: 5550 Joined: 02.03.05 |
Well, I have some doubts whether Nikitias Phaonia and this Phaonia are conspecific. I think Nikita's fly might be another Phaonia sp, not trimaculata. Compare the heads and thoracic pattern. One thing that I miss here for trimaculata are the infuscated M-Cu veins, though this feature may be variable. Gabor Keresztes Japan Wildlife Gallery Carpathian Basin Wildlife Gallery |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 15-03-2008 12:03
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Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
Gabor, I think it is the same fly : it is somewhat variable. Orbital plates can be touching or narrowly separated, scutellum apex reddish or not. For the infuscation of cross veins , the flash has hidden it on Jorge's photos. Finally, the thorax pattern is similar (except that the postsutural bands are less coalescent on Nikita's fly). Once again, it's my opinion, not necessary the truth... Stephane. |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 15-03-2008 13:30
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
I have to say, that you convinced me, Stephane Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 17-03-2008 17:20
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
 what a fight  ehehI spotted this fly this weekend.  Precisely with that pattern on scutum and very hairy eyes, and infuscated t veins. and clearly with vibrissae. Thanks! |
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