Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
 French Syrphidae - Ferdinandea
|
|
| conopid |
Posted on 26-09-2010 11:25
|
 Member Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1039 Joined: 02.07.04 |
I collected this Ferdinadea in south France - Clermont L'Herault. 17 September. Habitat scrub maquis. Compared to my specimens of F. cuprea and F. ruficornis this fly has completely orange femora and darker third antennal segments. Can anyone advise if it is likely to be a different species from cuprea or ruficornis? Perhaps F. aurea? If it might be a different species can anyone advise what the determining features are? conopid attached the following image:  [86.32Kb] Edited by conopid on 26-09-2010 16:21 Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom |
|
|
|
| conopid |
Posted on 23-10-2010 21:50
|
|
Member Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1039 Joined: 02.07.04 |
Any suggestions anyone?
Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom |
|
|
|
| Gerard Pennards |
Posted on 23-10-2010 22:48
|
 Member Location: Amersfoort Posts: 1914 Joined: 07.06.04 |
Hey Nigel, please try this key for your specimen: 1 Face with median black stripe from facial prominence (or from above facial prominence) down to upper mouth edge (ant.seg.3 deeper than long; abdominal tergites entirely pale-haired; hind tarsus with basitarsus distinctly longer than tarsomeres 2-4 combined) ............................................................................. aurea Rondani --- face entirely yellow medially, between antennae and upper mouth edge (a vague, dorso-ventral, blackish stripe may be present on each side of the face, from the eye margin to the buccal cavity) ......................................... 2 2 Arista blackish; upper and lower katepisternal hair patches hardly separated; abdominal tergites entirely palehaired (yellow/pale yellow); hind tarsus with basitarsus as long as tarsomeres 2-5 combined; haltere knob black (ant.seg.3 as long as, or longer than, deep) ............................................................................................................ 3 --- arista pale reddish; upper and lower katepisternal hairs patches widely separated; abd.tgs.2+3 with pale (whitish-yellow) hairs and black hairs (the black hairs mostly across the posterior half of the surface of the tergites); hind tarsus with the basitarsus no longer than tarsomeres 2-4 combined; haltere knob yellow ............................................................................................................................................... ruficornis (Fabricius) 3 Antennae almost entirely (or entirely) black, pale marking restricted to a small, baso-ventral, yellowish patch on antennal segment three, occupying no more than one quarter of the length of the segment and less than half of its height (orbital strip rather wide) ................................................................................. fumipennis Kassebeer --- antennal colouration varying from all segments entirely yellow to predominantly grey-brown, with the ventral half of the third segment yellowish and the first two segments more-or-less black (orbital strip narrower) ....................................................................................................................................................... cuprea (Scopoli) Hope you could use it? Greetings Edited by Gerard Pennards on 23-10-2010 22:49 Greetings, Gerard Pennards |
|
|
|
| conopid |
Posted on 24-10-2010 22:24
|
|
Member Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1039 Joined: 02.07.04 |
Gerrard, Brilliant and many thanks for providing this key. My specimen appears to be F fumipennis. New to me but then I hardly ever collect in France - I had to collect this one by placing a tube carefully over it, as I had no net with me this day! Is anyone likely to want this record? Best wishes Nigel Edited by conopid on 24-10-2010 22:32 Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom |
|
|
|
| Gerard Pennards |
Posted on 24-10-2010 23:04
|
|
Member Location: Amersfoort Posts: 1914 Joined: 07.06.04 |
Well, I think the french syrphid guys (Cyrille Dussaix and JP Sarthou) would be very very very interested, because I'm not sure this species was already recorded from France! Until now it's recorded from Spain, Balearic islands (Ricarte and Marcos-Garcia, 2007) and N Africa - Morocco and Tunisia (Kassebeer, 1999). So, it would be very exciting for them. But: are you sure? The details seem to be rather subtile, and there might be some variation in the characteristics. It would be necessary to have it checked by a specialist, in your case maybe Stuart or Ball? What do you do with specimens you collect? Have you got a collection? I would like to see (and have) the specimen, but only if you don't want it yourself. Greetings, Gerard Greetings, Gerard Pennards |
|
|
|
| conopid |
Posted on 25-10-2010 11:28
|
|
Member Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1039 Joined: 02.07.04 |
Hello Gerrard, Well, we must be cautious about this, so I think the best thing would be for me to send the specimen to yourself? It seems unlikley that of the very few specimens I collected in France, one would be a new species for the country, but one never knows.... Unfortunately this specimen is missing both its arista - one of the key features in the key. But other features, such as the very dark antenna are good. I have several UK specimens of F ruficornis for comparison, and I am pretty certain it is not this species (it is too shiny on the abdomen), so that leaves a choice between cuprea and fumipennis. It certainly is a subtle difference between these two species, but on the whole it does look different from my F cuprea specimens, particularly the very dark antenna. It definitely needs looking at to check this one out, as I am not familiar with the variation in F cuprea that may occur in French specimens. I'll contact you by private message for your address, so that I can send it to you for inspection. PS As you will have guessed, yes i do havea collection of Syrphids - nearly all UK stuff though. Edited by conopid on 25-10-2010 11:33 Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom |
|
|
|
| Jason G |
Posted on 25-10-2010 14:52
|
 Member Location: London UK Posts: 136 Joined: 22.12.08 |
Hi Nigel, Wouldn't that particular collection of a specimen be a stroke of luck if it was fumipennis!! My Ferdinandea cuprea collected in London has three very distinct black setae among shorter yellow-orange hairs on the apice of the 2nd femora, and two more further down the same leg's tibiae - I can get a photo if of interest. Yours lack these points, so for me makes your specimen less likely to be F. cuprea. What color is the haltere knob - any chance of a full-frontal photo of the face? Edited by Jason G on 25-10-2010 14:57 London's Insects http://londoninve...hostia.com |
|
|
|
| conopid |
Posted on 27-10-2010 18:00
|
|
Member Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1039 Joined: 02.07.04 |
Hi Jason, I have a number of F cuprea (and ruficornis) specimens, which I compared my specimen with. The standout feature that is different is the very dark antenna - on all my cuprea they are distinctly orangey in colour. C ruficornis has a much darker and duller abdomen, so my specimen does not appear to be that species. I've packed the specimen away in a well sealed box to go to Gerrard, so I can't get a frontal photo (well not without undoing all the packaging). I'll have a look at my cupreas to see if they have the disitinct black setae you mention. Might be another good differentiating character. It would be extraordinary if I have casually collected a new French species, so I am rather assuming that it will not be F fumipennis. We will see. Cheers Nigel Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom |
|
|
|
| Jason G |
Posted on 27-10-2010 19:27
|
|
Member Location: London UK Posts: 136 Joined: 22.12.08 |
Hi Neil, If you're interested, the first shows the hairs (three, posterially-pointing on appice of femur 2) taken with my macro lens, then under the microscope. Jason G attached the following image:  [114.97Kb] Edited by Jason G on 27-10-2010 19:30 London's Insects http://londoninve...hostia.com |
|
|
|
| Jason G |
Posted on 27-10-2010 19:29
|
|
Member Location: London UK Posts: 136 Joined: 22.12.08 |
Under the microscope. Good luck with Gerrard's ID - what a great discovery that'd be if it was!
Jason G attached the following image:  [110.63Kb] London's Insects http://londoninve...hostia.com |
|
|
|
| conopid |
Posted on 28-10-2010 10:03
|
|
Member Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1039 Joined: 02.07.04 |
I have just checked all my F cuprea specimens and all nine have that dark hair feature on the posterior of Femur2. Also the seven specimens of F ruficronis that I have, do not have these dark hairs, so it's potentially a good feature for differentiating the two UK species. Well spotted Jason!
Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom |
|
|
|
| Jason G |
Posted on 28-10-2010 14:00
|
|
Member Location: London UK Posts: 136 Joined: 22.12.08 |
Thanks Neil - and apologies for taking the thread slightly off-track.
London's Insects http://londoninve...hostia.com |
|
|
|
| Gerard Pennards |
Posted on 14-11-2010 16:36
|
|
Member Location: Amersfoort Posts: 1914 Joined: 07.06.04 |
Well, a small update on the matter. I got the male specimen and meanwhile I checked it against some keys and also Kassebeer's article about a North African species (Ferdinandea fumipennis) of which he expects it also could occur on the Iberian peninsula. The specimen is not cuprea, and there are two possibilities. - It's the male of Ferdinandea fumipennis, which would be a new species for France. - It's an undescribed species altogether, and it will be described in the near future. I do have to do a good check on all the details (Iprepared the genitalia for examination) before I can give a definitive answer on this. I'll keep you all informed....  Greetings Edited by Gerard Pennards on 14-11-2010 16:39 Greetings, Gerard Pennards |
|
|
|
| Andre |
Posted on 14-11-2010 21:42
|
 Member Location: Tilburg, the Netherlands Posts: 2111 Joined: 18.07.04 |
I have seen fumipennis, also from one female that I collected, and compared it with Spanish material. After my check, I sent it to the person who knows this species best: Antonio Ricarte Sabater from Alicante. He confirmed my specimen to be fumipennis. Unfortunately I cannot tell you guys where I caught it  He has many specimens to compare it with, so I would send it to him. PS: this is for the Syrphidae forum, btw. Edited by Andre on 14-11-2010 21:43 |
 |
|
| Jump to Forum: |
