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 around Helcomyzidae
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 28-07-2008 14:44
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9459 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Russia, delta of Pechora (68,5N), semi-salt water beach, 10 July, about 7-8mm. Could somebody help with this fly, please? Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [106.53Kb] Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 28-07-2008 15:28
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Perhaps Heterocheila buccata?
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 28-07-2008 16:18
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9459 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Thank you Paul, but according short and old key I have, it isn't. Rather Helcomyza, but it isn't good fit with H.ustulata, the only species I have short discription. Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 28-07-2008 19:52
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
LoL, I guess I am confusing names now...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 28-07-2008 21:53
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9459 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Do you mean that you agree with Helcomyza?
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 28-07-2008 22:31
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Nikita, ocellar bristles (i assume that those bristles come from ocellar zone. it seems) well developed so this is a Heterocheilidae. Heterocheila sp. frontal bristles well developed supports the idea for Heterocheilidae family.  Also the wings don't show strong bristles along the costa, where you only can find in Helcomyzid flies this feature. Try to see the prosternum, if bare > confirms Hetero, if not, very bristly.. it is Helcomyzi... I'm pretty sure this is Heterocheila sp.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 28-07-2008 22:55 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 28-07-2008 22:39
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
and we have in Europe only one species known for this genus... lol only one species for the family!  So Paul was right,. H. buccata. |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 28-07-2008 23:27
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 Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
Nikita, your fly seems to have a costal break and rather well developed calypters (maybe I'm wrong, you'll correct me). Maybe an anthomyiid ?
Stephane. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 28-07-2008 23:33
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
anthomyiid?? they are not so bare in lateral thorax.  besides anal vein doesn't reach wing margin. I saw a habitus for Heterocheila specimen and fits 100%  |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 28-07-2008 23:38
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
besides katapisternum should have AT LEAST 2 bristles and it is clear that it hasn't. I don't agree with Anthomyiidae. I reckon in Heterocheilidae due the reasons gave above.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 28-07-2008 23:38 |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 29-07-2008 09:22
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9459 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Stephane put doubts in my mind, really "costal break and rather well developed calypters". On the other hand - 2-3 distinctly outcurved orbitals and somewhat very vague dc: may be 2+5, may be 0+2. May be female of some crazy Spilogona? (may be - Spilogona, crazy - surely!) Nikita in doubts
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 29-07-2008 09:27
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
this cannot be an anthomyiid. I think you are just pushing the rope.  The same is true for heterocheilids! where are the 2-3 strong bristles in katepisternum that all anthomyiids should have? (usually they have 3.) Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 29-07-2008 09:41 |
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| Jan Willem |
Posted on 29-07-2008 09:53
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 Member Location: Waalwijk, The Netherlands Posts: 2158 Joined: 24.07.04 |
Well, looking at the second antennal segment, it certainly looks like a calyptrate fly.
Jan Willem van Zuijlen |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 29-07-2008 09:54
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Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
Yes Jorge, I should have use the term muscoid rather than anthomyiid... But if it really has a costal break, it cannot be neither Heterocheleidae, nor Helcomyzidae, that's the point I especially wanted to bring up. Stephane. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 29-07-2008 10:08
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
 hmm.. they really have no costal break. Sorry.. Nikita, are you sure that costal break is present? can you take a more approach photo for the costa? thanks!
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 29-07-2008 10:14 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 29-07-2008 10:09
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Stephane Lebrun wrote: Yes Jorge, I should have use the term muscoid rather than anthomyiid... But if it really has a costal break, it cannot be neither Heterocheleidae, nor Helcomyzidae, that's the point I especially wanted to bring up. ah! uff!! I thought I was crazy! One certainty I have: this is not anthomyiid. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 29-07-2008 10:17
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Jan Willem wrote: Well, looking at the second antennal segment, it certainly looks like a calyptrate fly. yes... those antennal segment and calypters worried me .  And both helcomyzids and heterocheilids are acalyptrate.. however I know that there are acalyptrate flies with calypters. Nevertheless, all of this fly resembles strikingly a Heterocheila sp.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 29-07-2008 15:36 |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:15
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 Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7286 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Well, to me it looks like Nikita's fly has at least two katepisternal bristles, and an anal vein which reaches the margin (at least as a crease), and clearly has a typical calypterate 2nd antennal segment. Nikita - can you rename the thread as "Wierd anthomyiid?" to get Mike Ackland's attention? Jorge - where did you see the habitus of Heterocheila which this so strongly resembles? Does it look anything like this? - http://www.dipter...to_id=2579 Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:23
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Tony - see figure 321 in Oosterbroek book. (but now I'm convinced this is a calyptrate fly). Sincerely, I don't see any strong bristle in katepisternum. The white pin had damaged part of the katepisternum and created a fence. But only Nikita can confirm us if there is any strong bristle. If really the fly has 2 bristles on katepisternum, I need new lenses. (to be sure: i'm not being sarcastic!)At least, this fly was and it is very curious! And it cheated me very well.  better to stay quiet in this one for now. At least, I had a great lesson on dipterology with this one. More times I see this one, this is or muscid or anthomyiid.. but one very, very unusual.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 29-07-2008 20:45 |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 29-07-2008 20:56
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Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7286 Joined: 19.11.04 |
This is what I think are the bristles (see the purple arrows) I agree that the Oosterbroek head figure looks a bit like this, but I think it looks more like http://www.funet....cata-1.jpg Tony Irwin attached the following image:  [4.36Kb] Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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