Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Bibionidae
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| Caracal |
Posted on 14-10-2016 14:37
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Member Location: Lunel-Viel - Hérault (France) Posts: 33 Joined: 12.10.16 |
Hello. I photographed this pair of Bibionidae to Lunel-Viel - Herault (France) on 10.10.2016. I captured a male the next day. Length: 6 mm. Is it possible to name the species? Sorry for the poor quality photographic : A lot of wind... Thank you for your help.  Jean-Jacques PORTENEUVE : France : Lunel-Viel : 34400 : 10/10/2016 Altitude : 11 m - Taille : Environ 6 et 8 mm  
Edited by Caracal on 15-10-2016 12:32 |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 15-10-2016 13:45
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 Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3931 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Hello and welcome to the forum! You start with a difficult question, because, as you admit, the pictures are a bit blurred. We have to discriminate between Bibio and Dilophus by means of the shape of the front tibiae. In Bibio, the front tibia ends in a single large spine on outer side with a smaller movable spine on the inner side; there are no groups of spines in the middle. The Dilophus tibia shows an apical ring of 7-9 stout spines and an additional group of 1-4 spines in the middle. The ring is difficult to see, but here are middle spines. Furthermore, I see spines on the pronotum of the male, which is also typical for Dilophus. According to the Fauna Europaea, you have 8 Dilophus species in France. One I can exclude because of black females. For the others we need an expert! You saw them surprisingly late in autumn... Let us hope for Theo Zeegers's help to get more information. Regards, Sundew |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 15-10-2016 14:10
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19133 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Yes, it is Dilophus. the darkened wing in female suggest febrilis, however, the reddish parts on thorax do not. So I am not sure Theo |
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| Caracal |
Posted on 15-10-2016 16:14
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Member Location: Lunel-Viel - Hérault (France) Posts: 33 Joined: 12.10.16 |
Thank you for your answers !  What would you think of Dilophus bispinosus ? |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 15-10-2016 17:38
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19133 Joined: 21.07.04 |
That is the one it is most certainly not [it is not a guessing competition ! ] Theo |
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| Caracal |
Posted on 15-10-2016 18:34
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Member Location: Lunel-Viel - Hérault (France) Posts: 33 Joined: 12.10.16 |
Ok, sorry, this proposal was made for me and some pictures on the web looked good match... https://www.googl...Cb8QsAQIJQ So Dilophus sp. Thanks 
Edited by Caracal on 15-10-2016 19:09 |
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| pierred |
Posted on 15-10-2016 20:04
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 Member Location: Paris (France) Posts: 1475 Joined: 21.04.05 |
On the other hand, we have a series of pictures on flicker (https://www.flick...otostream/) which seems to be a species of autumn with similar traits.
Pierre Duhem |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 16-10-2016 08:41
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19133 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Pierre, to Dilophus standards: that female is much more orange. Moreover, the wings are clear. Exactly the resasons why this cannot be bispinosus, in my opinion. Theo |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 16-10-2016 09:06
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 Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Sorry for interfering, but I need to say something... Caracal, Pierred, even if you compare pictures in the net, trying to ID Dilophus this way is very 'dangerous' First because you cannot trust blindly what you see in the net (in general terms, there are many erroneous IDs, some being real blunders; the net is filled with 'wild guessing' IDs that bring even more mistakes, and I am not talking just about Bibionidae) but also because in the case of Dilophus, males only can be IDed through genitalia and females are at the same time variable and most species too similar. Particular morphological details well in focus would be necessary to IDed them and just through pictures there is usually a shadow of doubt.I am not an expert in Bibionidae but I have dealt with them enough to be completely with Theo: Dilophus sp. is the only name that can be given through those pictures. Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 16-10-2016 09:34 |
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| Caracal |
Posted on 16-10-2016 12:43
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Member Location: Lunel-Viel - Hérault (France) Posts: 33 Joined: 12.10.16 |
Thank you very much for your response, I content myself with Dilophus sp. !
Edited by Caracal on 16-10-2016 12:44 |
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| pierred |
Posted on 25-10-2016 08:42
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Member Location: Paris (France) Posts: 1475 Joined: 21.04.05 |
In the mean time, Christoophe has examined a male specimen and concludes this could be Dilophus antipedalis.
Pierre Duhem |
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| pierred |
Posted on 04-11-2016 09:15
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Member Location: Paris (France) Posts: 1475 Joined: 21.04.05 |
Finally, one member of the forum examined the genitalia of a male specimen and concludes it is Dilophus clavicornus.
Pierre Duhem |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 04-11-2016 11:49
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19133 Joined: 21.07.04 |
That's a European first, isn't it ? Theo |
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| pierred |
Posted on 05-11-2016 18:36
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Member Location: Paris (France) Posts: 1475 Joined: 21.04.05 |
Indeed. The species was described from Israel. On the other hand, the collegue examining the specimen told us he had already seen specimens from Greece, Montenegro and even from France (near Montpellier).
Pierre Duhem |
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